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Comment by volk45 | Hacker News Reader

Popping my comment cherry here!

I’m a 3D artist that is currently encountering staunch resistance of generating 3D models from drone captured photogrammetry of historically protected sites in Pennsylvania, USA.

I’ve had resistance from the state and county level in pursuing take off and landing permission at historical sites. Communicating my intentions of digital historic preservation with photogrammetry has been a difficult “sell”.

I’m a licensed commercial remote pilot - however I need property owner permission to take off and land. Many sites are in state/county owned property in my area.

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Have you looked to see whether there is a local archaeology or social history society in your area that you could join? They will have individuals involved who are already used to dealing with property owners to arrange research projects, and you might be able to accompany them on the trips they organize. For reference, the archaeological society in my region serves around 400 square miles and typically organizes a low two-digit number of digs every year. There are also some other societies in the same region who focus on preserving and documenting recent history where excavation isn't required.

Another idea: if you don't already have any formal education in history, you could study for some qualifications in the subject. It would probably do much to reassure landowners that you are not going to harm the sites in any way (although I struggle to think of a way you could do so with a UAV!) In any case, good luck; I'd love to see the models!

I’ll have to look into regional historical societies. The county wide historical group has not been keen on allowing access to properties without a justified end goal other then “3D model”.

Which to be fair is a step I’ve still yet to figure out other then having models hosted on sketchfab.

I’m starting to visit in person farmer markets that exist on land with over 80+ year old histories and structures.

The personal educational avenue is another great option I haven’t considered. I’ll keep this in mind.

Here is a 3D model of a carriage house built in the late 1800s that I processed from drone photography. https://skfb.ly/oW8v7

This was from a public park so no permission was needed.

> digital historic preservation

When I hear "digital" I don't exactly associate long-term preservation with it. Do you also have a strategy for the "digital preservation" part? Websites don't live long. Storage media don't last long either.

Should such a program be made together with a partner that has a strategy for long-term (outlook of centuries) storage of digital content? Because otherwise I don't see the "preservation" aspect. The monuments will likely survive all the digitized data created from them, easily.

It's not just the data, but also ways to use it. Imagine this was done twenty years ago and it was all saved as Adobe Flash media.

I think preserving the digital media plus ensure that it will still be usable (hardware and digital format) is a monumental effort, in comparison creating the digital representation is not the hard part.

This is great feedback. I’m still at the content creation stage, aerial and terrestrial photogrammetry to produce 3D models. Hosted on sketchfab.

I really haven’t figured out a solution to host 3D models that isn’t tied to a web based private company. I.E sketchfab.

Curios if there could be an avenue of resin 3D prints of the 3D models. I always seem to loop back to “why does someone want/need this?” Which may in turn be the reason for state/county property owners refusing permission to access property.

The digital capture is indeed the easy part at the scale I’m working in - thanks again for this insight

I used to live in Pennsylvania across the street from a colonial era house and just a few miles from a national historic site. I love your idea of digital historic preservation but totally understand the skepticism and reluctance of those entrusted with protecting the sites.

Is there a way you could partner with the custodians of a historic site so they become part of the digital preservation effort? Maybe offer a way to embed the 3D model on an official webpage of the historic site? Getting the custodians onboard could smooth the process of getting the required permissions.

I definitely need to re-approach the county level historical society with a more thorough “pitch” for generating clean and detailed 3D models from drone photography.

The website embed is easy, I’d use sketchfab as the content host and embed platform. So long as sketchfab doesn’t disappear this is the best solution for embedding that I can utilize within my skill set as a 3D artist

I’ll need to see if I can have an in person meeting with larger historical societies so I can demo the 3D models and explain its significance.

I’ve stressed I’m not trying to solicit this as paid work - framing it as a partnership that is beneficial to both parties could make headway however.

Hey I'm really sorry! It's really hard. My photo permissions at Giza took two years to secure. My only advice is to keep showing up in person and hang in there--I feel for you!

That’s some incredible perseverance from you! In person is the right move though. Getting FaceTime in with groups or people who are part of the process does seem to make the best headway.

> staunch resistance

Why?

PA restricts drone take/off and landing to only 6 parks in the whole state.

So for example, Washington’s crossing state park with its 3.7thousand acres, restricts drone/take off and landing by state law.

I’ve politely reached out to the park, and being a federally licensed commercial pilot with insurance coverage doesn’t pry that jar open.

The airspace classification is the limit, so I can fly over as much as I want - problem is all surrounding property is privately owned and I need to maintain 3 statue miles of visual line of site.

^ All of the above makes it impossible to capture up close aerial imagery of colonial period houses and barns for photogrammetry.

Smaller single structure county owned properties only hand out photography permits if events are being held, or the photography/videography is associated with a production company.

I may need to expand my municipal and county outreach further away from the county I reside in. Which is a shame since there are some beautiful historically preserved farmlands and structures in my home county.

A lot of people, myself included, find quadrotor drones in peaceful natural settings to be incredibly annoying. If anyone who isn't aware of the rules sees you breaking them, they will assume that they can do it too and will gleefully bring their loudest, most annoying quadrotor everywhere they can because "they saw someone else do it once." It also opens the floodgates to all kinds of permitting and other process questions for different kinds of activities and they have to justify why they let you do it but not someone else.

Yup, I get it. This aircraft is disruptive at anything under 100feet above ground level.

I thought there would have at least been an avenue to progress through as a federally licensed remote pilot, with an LLC and liability insurance.

I think if you could find a way to do it in a uniform or with a volunteer lanyard you'd probably be golden.

Tried approaching any of the adjacent private landowners, and seen if some of them are either sympathetic to your cause and/or the type who'd love a chance to stick a finger to the relevant authorities?

This has cross my mind multiple times. There are some beautiful residential properties overlooking some state parks. With clear 3 statue mile visibility into the park.

I’m not fond of solicitors entering my private property - I don’t feel confident knocking on doors asking for that type of permission.

What's the punishment for violating this? Is it civil? e.g. a fine? If so, can we just crowdfund all the fines you'd get and pay them all off for you?

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