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Comment by DrillShopper | Hacker News Reader

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I'm not sure -- I think that would depend on whether the EPA is statutorily enabled to research and issue public health determinations on water fluoridation, or whether that scope has been established indirectly via deference. But given that the statue in this case specifically enables compelling the EPA to re-conduct reviews, I don't think CD is an immediate concern.

Chevron Deference was about courts reviewing statutory meanings, not about courts reviewing scientific research/evidence.

I'm one step ahead here I think. Obviously the EPA is empowered to do the study. That's part of why they exist. However, my understanding is that if the level that the EPA sets is not precisely prescribed by law then that gives an opening to anybody to challenge that limit in the courts because Congress didn't set a definitive level and therefore the EPA overstepped its authority.

That is not a correct understanding. Congress simply needs to have charged the EPA with ensuring water is safe and setting limits.

You think anti-fluoride activists are all on the right politically? I would be shocked if that were true, given that some of the most anti-vaccination people are radical leftists.

It's a bipartisan conspiracy, for sure. But I don't think the push for eliminating the Chevron Deference came meaningfully from the left, so any left-crank use of it is more opportunistic than strategic.

(I leave it open to your judgement whether it matters that it's opportunistic instead of strategic!)

Maybe not all but definitely the majority. It is an old John Birch Society talking point and Q is a direct descendant of that ideological foundation.

Libertarians (which is a polite way of saying ancaps these days) are also against it and they skew much more right than left when it comes to election politics.

I live in the US and the overwhelming majority of antivaxers I've seen here have been right wing religious fundamentalists or right wing politicians.

Anti-vaxers are mostly right wing politically these days. Not sure when that changed.

However, anti-flouride activists have always been right wing due to the LDS (Mormon) Church being the largest pusher of such resistance (at least here in the western USA).

Like RFK Jr.? He's not right wing. The left simply redefines everything so that if you disagree with them even 1%, you're a far right radical in their book.

There are LOTS of hippie types that want nothing to do with toxic waste like fluoride. I've seen some that don't even want to use mass-produced soap because it contains random chemicals.

I didn't say everyone who is anti-vax is right wing, just that it seems to be more prevalent on the right. That's all. Please stop strawmanning me.

I mentioned other cases. You are strawmanning me lol. As for prevalence, you want me to believe that the numerous people who worry about cow farts, fracking, secondhand smoke, gluten, GMOs, and non-organic food won't also be worried about toxic waste like fluoride? I think the only way they would not worry about it is because they've been told an outgroup has championed the issue.

Obviously you are reaching here… fluoride in water and second hand smoke are on completely different levels.

Not really. Second hand smoke is relatively harmless unless you are stuck in a very smokey environment every day for years. Fluoridated water is hard to avoid, usually costs money to avoid, and you are exposed for your whole life. Smoke is a much more obvious toxin than fluoride because you can smell it, and it's irritating to most people at first.

Fluoride in water is completely unnecessary thanks to fluoridated toothpaste, yet we continue to add it. There are other countries, even in Europe, that don't do it out of concern for the health effects of the toxin. Yet people call it a conspiracy theory anyway...

RFK Jr. is mentally ill, he dumped a dead bear in Central Park, that doesn’t say sane to me. The fact that he is all over the place in ideology isn’t that interesting.

Hippies are more of a boomer thing, and they are aging out rapidly. You could say these things in the 80s with a straight face, but in the 2020s? The conspiracy theory crowd is firmly rooted into the right these days, which includes anti vaxism and anti fluoride.

But seriously, the LDS church was against fluoride before it was cool in the right to be against fluoride. So if we just look at them (and they have lots of influence in western states), it’s always been a right wing position.

Have you heard of a practical joke? Hunters are comfortable with dead animals and would not see a huge problem with moving a dead bear, unless it was rotting.

I think you need to actually listen to RFK Jr. He is extremely articulate, more so than even Obama I think. He is not actually anti-vax and has had every normal vaccine besides the covid vaccine. He is just very particular about the testing that should be done for medicine, and acutely aware of many misdeeds of Big Pharma. He's written multiple books and constant blogs chock full of scientific citations backing up what he thinks. Right or wrong, he understands much more about the industry than any other politician I've seen.

>Hippies are more of a boomer thing, and they are aging out rapidly. You could say these things in the 80s with a straight face, but in the 2020s? The conspiracy theory crowd is firmly rooted into the right these days, which includes anti vaxism and anti fluoride.

The modern hippie is just called a hipster. A lot of liberals constantly worry about cow farts, secondhand smoke, gluten, eating meat, and LOTS of other things that are occasionally valid. The most direct comparison you can make to the fluoride issue is fracking because both of these issues involve water contamination.

Many issues that liberals take up have some validity to them. We ought to be concerned about pollutants like fluoride in our water. However, we all know that they have some really crazy people among them. Like just the other day there were some arguing on here that car accidents are tantamount to murder, and that anyone driving a large vehicle has no legitimate reason to do it.

You may need to actually listen to RFK Jr. more.

RFK Jr. telling Joe Rogan WiFi radiation causes cancer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-YQ1Y7c_Pk

RFK Jr. on 5G conspiracy theories: https://x.com/RobertKennedyJr/status/1214710810921955328

RFK Jr. on chemicals in drinking water causing trans kids: https://x.com/BenjaminGoggin/status/1670755204403277825

RFK Jr. on Bill Gates conspiracy theories: https://archive.is/PiwCW

RFK Jr.'s long history of claiming thimerosal in vaccines cause autism: https://archive.is/uIWaC

It's pretty clear RFJ Jr. doesn't believe things because he understands them well; he believes things simply because they are conspiracy theories, because he's a crackpot who's predisposed to believing any conspiracy theory that stumbles across his path.

edit:

Replying to your post below because we’re at the HN comment limit.

The weight of evidence is heavily against cell phone radiation causing cancer, so that you began your response with “cell phone radiation is known to cause cancer” suggests you have the same weak evidentiary standards as RFK Jr. and explains why you would find someone like him compelling.

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/r...

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