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Comment by kortilla | Hacker News Reader

I’m curious about this history of this. What page are people on that might lead to domestic abuse?

What do they use frequently enough that they would learn about this exit functionality rather than just clicking a bookmark bar, closing the tab, or just switching the tab?

This seems like such a contrived scenario with a solution that only works for gov uk sites. Why not teach users how to switch or close tabs with keyboard shortcuts?

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> What page are people on that might lead to domestic abuse?

I assume there's a .gov.uk page somewhere that lists resources for people who are in abusive relationships. I imagine if an abusive partner walked in to find you reading that, that might set them off.

Sure, but are they going to spend a bunch of time to learn how to use the magic exit button or just press ctrl-w to close the tab?

I am highly technical (multiple linux machines at home) and I don't use ctrl-w. I didn't know it was a thing.

I'm mildly surprised because it's been adopted fairly universally for multi-document / multi-tab apps. E.g. most editors with tabs will also use it to close the current document.

I do, but only because it's a stupid-ass shortcut I keep triggering on accident.

I don't really mind triggering ctrl-W by accident because ctrl-shift-T will undo the mistake.

An accidental ctrl-Q is much worse, because closed incognito windows can't be recovered.

I think all the major browsers can be configured to prompt before quitting.

Firefox prompts by default

Sorta, kinda, maybe? Even the one shipped with Debian/Ubuntu?

Firefox gave me plenty of scars over the years. CTRL-Q and CTRL-W are just two; another's the fear of the browser randomly going "updates have been installed, you're not allowed to do anything until you restart; shame about that unsaved work you had on the page we just blanked" shit that used to fly on Ubuntu.

(Maybe still does? I browse from Windows nowadays.)

While true, that's a very recent change.

If it’s the only tab you have open, it’ll look very suspicious that you’re just staring at the desktop…

Imagine your abuser “lets you” use the computer for one hour a day. They monitor your browser history. They read your texts, your social media DMs, and browse your search history. They often watch you browsing, save going to the fridge to get a beer or to go to the bathroom. These are the moment where you think about trying to find help. It’s all you think about really: how to get out.

How likely are you to know keyboard shortcuts?

As a UX designer, would you not want to make a big safe UX button that you need no prior training or experience of, that you can trust to help you get out of a difficult situation.

Footsteps. Oh shit. They’re coming back. Is it Ctrl-W? Or Ctrl-V? Oh fuck, he’s nearly in the room. Quick, where’s the tiny little cross to close the window… oh, wait, click that exit page button, or just quickly hit shift a bunch of times. “Oh yes, I was just looking at the weather for tomorrow. I was thinking about whether to put some washing out on the line…”

This scenario is contrived

> just quickly hit shift a bunch of times

How would you even know about this shortcut you never use anywhere, let alone remember it in a time of stress?

See things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ask_for_Angela

In principle, information about this could be propagated, if it's reliably available on UK govt sites at this point (I'm not sure if it is).

This discussion is about the current practice where a more widely used Ctrl+W is hard to remember, but somehow a niche 3xShift isn't, not a potential future info campaign

> This scenario is contrived

This is a much more realistic user story than 99% you will ever read.

The main question is: how do you know to hit shift a load of times? Is that a standard thing being taught to people?

Another example: There’s a page in the iOS settings where you can remove people from your family group and change your password (or do other things you might do if someone was after you). It has a “quick exit” button that kicks you back to the Home Screen, but also completely kills the Settings app so said person wouldn’t know you were on that page if they yoinked your phone.

https://support.apple.com/guide/personal-safety/how-safety-c...

There's some examples (and a pretty sad graph on _when_ users are looking at these resources) on the user research summary: https://github.com/alphagov/govuk-design-system/discussions/...

If I'm looking at this right it's around 413 uses in a month in this particular web page. I don't know if they somehow distinguish actual use versus "trying it out". I think it's great these things are considered but I'm a bit skeptical they actually increase physical safety of people at risk. Maybe these buttons increase perceived safety, which is a good thing?

The MVP for this component was on the form to start an application for a restraining order. The design team fully explain their rationale and research on the project Github.

https://github.com/alphagov/govuk-design-system/discussions/...

> This seems like such a contrived scenario with a solution that only works for gov uk sites. Why not teach users how to switch or close tabs with keyboard shortcuts?

+1. "Close tab" is more robust, well-supported and well-known.

It seems more likely a user will load an inoccuous page as a decoy, than learn triple-shift is a quick exit.

Still, interesting read, to hear the reasoning. Would like to see empirical evidence/user testing.

I understand the happy case. When it works, great.

My critiques were on the sad cases:

* Presses <Ctrl><Ctrl><Ctrl>. Wait why isnt this working? Too late.

* Presses <Shift><Shift><Shift> on another sensitive site that doesn't implement this. Too late.

* Presses <Shift><Shift><Shift> on a poorly supported browser, or after the functionality is removed, or after it conflicts with OS-level (it might not today, but who knows about future OS updates)

We should probably bake it into browser standards then.

Absolutely. This would solve the above problems, plus any problems involving JavaScript bugs that would render the whole thing inactive. Just a shortcut to go to the root of the site seems appropriate. Or maybe sites could configure themselves for a "safe site" equivalent if their whole content is a risk.

The timing of those two scenarios is different.

Either the abuser walked in while the person was still on the page with the big red button or not. It is not faster to press the big red button or shift 3 times than it is to close a tab.

> It is not faster to press the big red button

Indeed.

Surely Ctrl+W (with a 2nd decoy tab already there and at BBC Weather) is 10x faster than finding and clicking a button on the page you're reading?

EDIT: another issue with the Exit This Page as implemented on eg https://www.camden.gov.uk/planning-to-leave-an-abuser - if you open it in a private browsing session, and click it, it sends you to Google, but of course there the first thing you get is the massive cookies pop-up. So wouldn't that be a bit of a red flag to whoever just walked in? :/

Partner walks in

They see a page changing

Black eye

Or, perhaps even more likely, abuser stealthily enters the room and silently observes the victim to try to extract more damning information before admonishing (or rather, attacking) them.

If it’s the only tab open, you’ll raise suspicion if your partner walks in to you staring at the desktop

I think the point is learning to have two tabs open, one incognito, will work everywhere for all resources, whereas this bespoke interaction needs to be memorised just for this websites.

I wouldn’t presume to lecture women whose husbands beat them on how they should behave…

I understand this is a sensitive topic, but I don't think it's fair to characterize robertlagrant's comment in the way you did.

Their comment looks similar to any other comment on technical/UX matters, including yours and mine.

> I think the point is learning to have two tabs open, one incognito, will work everywhere for all resources, whereas this bespoke interaction needs to be memorised just for this websites.

No, it’s telling people how they should behave, as you can see. It makes no attempt to step into the shoes of the user.

It wouldn't be the desktop, would it? Wouldn't it be an 'empty' browser window? Still just as suspicious, of course, but I wonder if some/all browsers do something special in that case—e.g. default to the home page. They certainly could, as could a plugin.

Chrome closes the window on the last tab. It's splitting hairs, however. As you said, it's still raises suspicion which, to a person in a domestic violence situation, is not what they want.

> This seems like such a contrived scenario

Agreed. I suspect the number of people assisted by this button is vanishingly small, and outweighed by the number of people who don't get the information they're looking for because they accidentally click the button and can't find their way back.

Or the number of people harmed because the "exit this page" UI is on some pages only (for example, it isn't here on HN), and that is even more confusing for users who aren't tech savvy enough to realise its part of the site not the browser and who could come to rely on it.

Overall, I think this button is poor UX and shouldn't be used, even on pages with sensitive content that it is intended for.

I would really like to know whether this feature gets any (non-accidental) use. It's certainly an important problem to solve, and I can see the technical merit in the solution proposed. What I'm left wondering is how this solution is most effectively communicated to the people who need to know about it, such that they're able to make use of it correctly in the critical moments when they need to use it. For obvious reasons there are probably no good statistics on this, but I wonder what the user research was like.

Many possibilities. Something seeking legal help, or an info page about domestic abuse itself, or something around financial literacy.

That information is out there, but people in these kinds of circumstances don't always have unrestricted internet time to research it. They might just be able to snatch a few minutes here and here and therefore not know much about how to use browsers etc.

This is particularly the case for an honour-based abuse service (forced marriage, honour killings etc) that we work with for example.

> What page are people on that might lead to domestic abuse?

The police, the divorce services, health services pages about contraception, abortion, sexual assault, LGBT youth services, etc etc etc. Think people who are already being abused, mostly.

If it’s the only tab open, switching isn’t an option. Women living under the threat of violence will be very stressed, so won’t be well placed to setup their browser ahead of time.

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