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Comment by brunoqc | Hacker News Reader

> good luck running banking apps without Google SafetyNet.

Doesn't most banks have a mobile version of their website. Maybe not the best but it could be a good compromise.

Most banks here in Europe require Mobile apps to login into their website.

So the EU attempts to invade your privacy using smartphones [1] and forces duopoly-brand smartphones upon its citizens, yet it fails to compel Apple to allow true sideloading, so you're stuck choosing between "no freedom but some privacy" or "no privacy but some freedom"? Their digital policy initiatives overall seem like a net loss for EU citizens as it stands.

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/19/24181214/eu-chat-control

You really had to stretch a lot of bullshit just to rant over chat control here, didn't you?

The point is that we're being forced into a duopoly, which is unacceptable.

I was trying to make a case that when you add up everything the EU has done recently with regards to digital policy, you get a net loss for EU citizens. Their attempt at chat control decrements the score by a significant amount. Amending the DMA to have it not be completely useless would increment it by a significant amount, but it is unknown if that will happen yet.

The EU as a whole is a net loss for citizens, always has been.

As far as I have evidence, that is not true in Germany. I have accounts with three banks, and all of them can be managed with SMS 2FA and web access.

But that's probably mostly because Germany is generally so far behind the rest of Western Europe in modern Internet and online usage, isn't it?

The SMS 2FA is mostly being phased out because it's horribly insecure :/

And many banks stopped providing hardware tokens as well because it's too expensive.

They don't offer hardware tokens by default. Often you can request one (you will be charged). I did just that despite it not being advertised option. I just said I need one.

If you bank requires it, you can: a) find different bank that doesn't; there are banks like this b) demand a hardware token

Unless you explicitly sign for Mobile-only bank (neobanks are weird) you will be able to get hardware token.

Speaking from German, UK and Polish experience.

I think all banks in my country as well provide hardware token method (used to be paper cards, nowadays a small Tamagotchi like device that outputs codes) if you don't want to use a phone app.

Yeah, while they certainly try to push it, I don t know about any Czech bank that would force you to use a mobile app.

If you want to go in and do the basics (check balance, do a normal transfer, look at activity) this can get you by. A lot of the more useful features tend to be app only though. E.g. "scan to deposit check" is an app only item for my bank.

I can do that sort of thing from the Ally website. Which is good, because Google is actively killing off support for devices more than a few years old, and I can't run most new apps on my phone, banking or otherwise (old apps are hit-or-miss, but the practice of forcing updates to the latest version poisons most of them).

You got a cheque? How quaint. I haven't used one in almost 2 decades. (Australia) in fact when telstra refunded me $2.50 by cheque I simply threw it away.

This has to be a predominantly American problem, right?

I cannot imagine a cohort of Australian, Asian, New Zealand, British and European continental users noping out of an app because not cheque enabled.

I'm as old as a dinosaur and I haven't used a cheque in my life, not even back when bank accounts were managed through this little paper book with numbers and stamps.

Here in Europe you cannot login to bank websites without the bank app on your phone for 2FA codes

That's simply not factually correct. You can use bank web sites entirely without a smartphone. Banks supply this option as there are really - surprise! - people without smart phones who still has money.

My own bank does not even use 2FA. I log in using the officiel state sponsored digital ID (yes, without having a smartphone). This is in Denmark.

(sorry about the new anon account, it's been so long since I posted I've forgotten my old account. Perhaps I should use a PW mgr...)

Where in Europe? Everywhere on the continent? Certainly not in Sweden where I live. The major banks here use 2FA but not mandated to a mobile app.

Not in Poland either. Pretty much every bank has also SMS 2FA available.

I remember Poland has a very late cycle of sunsetting 2G / 3G. Which makes SMS 2FA not very secure ( other than Social Engineering ).

Europe is not one single country, and for me that statement is 100% untrue.

The banking regulation is usually introduced across whole EU and this includes new recommendation to phase out 2FA via SMS.

Not all countries have caught up yet, but you can expect that to change within a few years.

Which doesn't preclude hardware keypads, which British banks have been issuing for at least 15 years now.

They may have, but here in central EU they stopped to save costs and now the only option on many banks is having a smartphone.

That's not really the point. The 2FA I use isn't via SMS, and never was.

Why don't they use a third party authenticator instead?

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