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Comment by Rhapso | Hacker News Reader

Shoplifting has allways been a sign of a failure of society to provide people with hope for a future in compliance with social expectations.

Crime will allways exist at some level, but a "shoplifting crisis" would not be something solved with more secure shops.

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"X has always been a sign of Y"

Pretty arbitrary assertion.

Maybe shoplifting is a sign of what you say it is.

Could also be a sign of breakdown in law and order because property crime is increasingly ignored, and so people do it because they know they won't get punished.

"breakdown in law and order"

I think we have different fundamental assumptions about what motivates people. "Threat of being punished" isn't a healthy motivator for a society.

Just as biological parasites exploit their hosts without reciprocating, free riders in society take advantage of resources without contributing back. This behavior, if left unchecked, places a burden on those who do contribute.

A society that fails to address stealing is like an organism unable to fight off a parasite. It may function for a while, but the harm eventually becomes too great. This is why well-designed disincentives for antisocial behavior are crucial for maintaining long-term societal health.

Members of society are not external organisms, they are the cells that make up the organism that is society itself. The most effective ways in which organisms fight these issues - take cancer for example - is to prevent the issue to bring with, not to supercharge the immune system against itself. Much like an immune system too eager to go after it's own cells can cause autoimmune disease, fighting antisocial behaviour primarily through repression leads to societal ruin.

Some qualifiers would be helpful to engage with you. Certainly threat of punishment shouldn’t be the only motivator in a healthy society, but it probably needs to be one.

"Threat of being punished" isn't a healthy motivator for a society.

And certainty that you won't be punished is?

Ask the rich and powerful how it affects their behavior

Exactly, and you want to democratize that approach? Nobody, rich or poor, is ever held responsible for anything?

Well, you know, we all want to change the world...

The increase in theft isn't a matter of not providing hope, but rather that the internet has made it far easier to fence stolen merchandise.

You didn't know any middle class high school kids who took "five-finger discounts"?

What was the appropriate solution to that problem?

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