Hacker News Reader

Comment by throwup238 | Hacker News Reader

Regardless of the sentence, there's only one federal prison for women above low security so she's probably going to end up somewhere cushy with no fences and work release.

SBF on the other hand... https://old.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/1av88z5/fir...

View on HN

I don't think the Feds do work release, they have their own industries that you can slave away at for $0.17/hr. But you are right she will go to a camp since she is non-violent and only has 2 years. It's a points system and assuming she hasn't committed any crimes prior then her points will be low enough to go to a camp.

What's a "camp"? Is it not a prison? Non-US person here.

The sibling comments are incorrect, the minimum security prisons are called 'Federal Prison Camps", the colloquial name is 'Club Fed'. There aren't a ton of these facilities, so I can see why other people thought that the camp phrasing wasn't literal. Think military camp rather than summer camp.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_federal_...

Looks like Elizabeth Holmes of Theranos is also in this sort of camp in Bryan, Texas. Minimum-security of course.

Federal minimum security prisons don't have fences surrounding the prison so the only thing keeping prisoners from "escaping" is the extra five years that'd be added to their sentence. They have far fewer guards and the prisoners live in dormitory style quarters so it's far more like adult summer camp than prison (commonly referred to as "Club Fed"). Instead of having services on site they'll often drive the prisoners to a local dentist or doctor, etc.

As they get closer to release or if their sentences are short enough, prisoners can even get work release which allows them to leave the prison during the day to work at a regular job. (I think the GP is confusing work release and parole - the Federal system does have work release)

If you're in Western Europe a minimum security federal facility is probably closer to your understanding of a prison than an American's understanding. Hence Americans describe it as a camp, whereas if you looked at it you might say hey, that's a prison.

It's a prison but it's generally much more open. Prisoners sleep in open air dorms, there are minimal to no fences, there are generally good education and recreation programs and vast majority of people are white collar criminals, the violence is much much lower.

It probably doesn't apply as much to white collar criminals but I wonder if she would be considered a snitch by her fellow inmates.

The no snitching rule applies mostly to someone who is already in prison and consequences depend on the security level. No one’s going to kill a snitch in minimum security, worst case scenario is that they’ll be outcasts and get into a fight occasionally.

The majority of prisoners are in prison because of a plea deal, not a jury verdict, so they often have to snitch on their accomplices as part of the plea deal (with severe consequences for lying and omissions). In practice the traditional prisoner’s dilemma usually plays out with everyone snitching on each other and everyone getting a deal because the prosecutor doesn’t want to waste time and money on a trial.

> In practice the traditional prisoner’s dilemma usually plays out with everyone snitching on each other and everyone getting a deal because the prosecutor doesn’t want to waste time and money on a trial.

This seems unlikely. Any prosecutor running for re-election wants to score. At least one big fish.

Over 95% of criminal cases end in a plea bargain. Trials are rare and unpredictable. The last thing prosecutors want is their career derailed by a fickle jury and the vast majority of crimes don’t involve a “big fish” worth the risk.

This and other phenomena make it sound like the "justice" system is fertile ground game theory.

Game theory is full of spherical cows like the assumption that the state has infinite resources to prosecute. Reality is a bit different.

It's a prison, just what you might call a "minimum security prison." Like, you might take out the garbage outside the prison with no supervision.

I believe it’s being used as a colloquial play on “summer camp” to describe the prison as not that bad.

This is actually a term used by the BOP to describe minimum security institutions:

"Minimum security institutions, also known as Federal Prison Camps (FPCs), have dormitory housing, a relatively low staff-to-inmate ratio, and limited or no perimeter fencing. These institutions are work- and program-oriented."

https://www.bop.gov/about/facilities/federal_prisons.jsp

Huh the more you know. Maybe it’s just me but as a technical term it makes them sound worse. My mind goes to POW camps, internment camps, death camps…

Do prisoners have to work?

In almost every case the prisoner is doing it voluntarily.

There are actually fewer prison jobs than prisoners willing to work. So in nearly every case being able to have a job while in prison is actually a privilege for the prisoners. One that can be taken away if they get in trouble.

There's a lot of reform we should make with relation to prison jobs including raising wages and introducing relevant skills.

But criticisms of it being slave labor are misleading.

Forced labor is legal in the US and there are isolated cases of it happening but you're talking about a fraction of a percent of all prisoners.

> But criticisms of it being slave labor are misleading

It depends. In Georgia on work release, for instance, it pretty much is slavery. You're forced into a minimum number of hours and get less than minimum wage.

You're forced to take a job - not having one isn't an option. Because you have close to 0 chance of getting parole without a job. And when you sentence people 20+ years for possession and such, you need parole. Not to mention there's also indefinite imprisonment - meaning you're locked away until you get parole.

These prisoners don't work in the prison, they typically work in food establishments like McDonald's. Even with the privilege and getting a job and having good behavior, parole is shockingly low - just 8% for nonviolent offenders. So the prisoners are trapped, coerced to work for many years to prove themselves and hope for a chance to get parole. All while they're making a couple dollars an hour, maybe, and the prison keeps half their wages.

Failure to work or problems at work result in the loss of "good time". No phone calls, no visits.

In the United States prison inmates are still slave labor, courtesy of the 14th amendment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_Un...

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/14/1219187249/prisoners-are-suin...

> Ms. Ellison is set to report to a minimum security prison in the Boston area by around Nov. 7, almost exactly two years after FTX collapsed.

So it's Danbury, CT.

I used to drive by this prison- for years I thought it was a country club until I asked my dad about the sign that said "Do not pick up hitchhikers" which seemed odd for a golf course.

Danbury is only "in the Boston area" by the most generous of measures. Hell, Danbury's probably closer to Philadelphia than Boston.

>Danbury is only "in the Boston area" by the most generous of measures. Hell, Danbury's probably closer to Philadelphia than Boston.

Perhaps by a small margin, but I don't think so.

That said, Danbury is ~150 miles from Boston and ~70 miles from New York City. And even less from New Haven or Hartford.

SBF on the other hand...is cell mates with Puff Daddy.

That photo hit me hard. I'd have so many regrets.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com