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Comment by rogerbinns | Hacker News Reader

My gripe with Sonic is they pull stunts on the telephony just like the scumbags such as AT&T. In my case they will not supply DSL without also supplying phone service, for which I have absolutely no use. I don't even have a physical phone to plug in and haven't for years.

They claim the phone service is "free", but you get nailed with various taxes and fees. The taxes are a legal requirement. The fees are entirely up to Sonic, although some have regulatory maximums. And Sonic charges those maximums - something AT&T doesn't!

If they were honest they wouldn't hide things like this, pretending something is free when it clearly isn't.

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How do you deliver DSL without a phone line in the US?

Even AT&T delivers a phone line on their "direct DSL", they just hide the costs of regulation in the rate.

This, to me, isn't a case where sonic is to blame. This has more to do with restrictive FCC requirements than it does with Dane.

Phones are due for a regulatory rework.

DSL and dial-tone are completely separate services, that only share a copper line. Verizon doesn't require you to purchase dial-tone in order to get DSL. The only reason I can think of for AT&T to do so is to prop up their telephone business.

AT&T will also sell me naked or dry DSL as it is called. It is sonic that insists on bundling "free" phone service and then charging for it through additional surcharges and fees.

You are wrong. After getting a special number ( 1-800-288-2020) i was able to order dsl from att without a landline contract and phone taxes from California. Nothing.

Catch is, the advertised price of $25/mo for 6mbps only last one year, and you have to sign up for two years, paying $55/mo on the second.

Still beats paying $40 all around for the crappy cable latency i get here (at One block from the att repeater building!)

Look, the 2882020 # is not special... That's the main AT&T customer service number.

You're wrong. If you call AT&T, inside of their systems, they can only group dsl orders based on phone numbers. So even if they tell you you're not getting dial tone, in their system, you are getting dial tone.

This has to do with very interesting regulations from the FCC which I don't care to dive into now.

The special rate you got is the same rate you'd get by walking into an AT&T store...

So in both cases you pay $960 for 2 years, except in one case you don't get a phone line.

My math comes out differently.

your math is off. And i don't get a phone in either cases.

one option is ADSL without a phone line taxes.

other option is cable. also, without a phone for obvious reasons

So, basically, your gripe is their billing contains line-item entries towards phone service. If they were to simply not show you these and instead have: "DSL Service: $40. Taxes & Fees: $7.99" you would be happy?

The same provisioning taxes & fees apply to the phone line itself, regardless of your usage. Sonic doesn't own the telephone line itself. AT&T or whomever does. And you can be sure they aren't letting Sonic use those lines for free.

My gripe is that I want DSL only. They say this:

DSL service: $40

Phone service: Free

Actual bill comes in:

DSL service: $40

Phone service taxes: $3

Phone service fees, surcharges etc, discretionary, levied by Sonic whose entire proceeds go back to them: $12

ie the "Free" phone service I do not want and do not use costs an extra 30%. If they were honest they would say this:

DSL service: $40

Mandatory phone service: $12 (no additional usage charges)

Mandatory taxes: $3

Yes.

I've always been fascinated by the 'show me the tax' mindset. I'm probably in the minority but an all inclusive, up front pricing structure will always make me happier than one that has a base + taxes + fees.

I have no illusions of being able to convince you that one pricing structure is 'better' than another. But there are a lot of us out there who really don't want to know about all the components of the price.

Separate itemization of tax may be a legal requirement in some areas.

I signed up for a tmobile plan the other day. I talked to them online and then in a call, and asked what the taxes and surcharges would be. They said they could not tell me because it was impossible for them do so until after they generated my first bill (which coincidentally is the point at which it is too late to cancel). I did try using logic ("you already have code to calculate tax") but that obviously did not work.

Even if what you say is an issue, they can still show totals just as plane tickets do. They can say the total is $55/mo of which $13 is taxes.

I'm not sure this actually helps you, but I'm pretty sure there's a statutory Buyer's Remorse period where you can cancel within 14 days with no penalty.

I'm thinking that the first bill would probably be generated after the buyer's remorse period.

It's not -- I just signed up for a postpaid plan on T-Mobile yesterday, and the receipts included the first and second months' bills (for service and taxes).

If you do it on the web they make it very plain that $0 is due now. They do say the plan will be $45/month but there is absolutely no indication what their additional fees will be nor what the taxes will.

I'm in California. Maybe you are in a state where they actually have to provide this information?

I'm in Oklahoma, which traditionally doesn't have much in the way of consumer protection or information laws. It's possible, though I think it's probably because I bought it in a physical store.

Totally agree. Check out condointernet.net for a great example of an amazing product with a flat fee of 60 bucks a month for 100mb down, no contract required. I lived in Seattle the last two years and was blown away by their service, pricing, and the overall experience. We need more like them.

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