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Comment by TallGuyShort | Hacker News Reader

I landed a great programming job with no experience and no degree because I could walk in there and talk about what I had taught myself and done on my own time. I know this doesn't transfer to every situation in every industry, but I think much of the problem stems from people who haven't put in much effort to make themselves marketable and to educate themselves. If I saw that, I would make the assumption that the company could spend money training them and they wouldn't necessarily come away a harder-working, more motivated person.

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Sounds like you did have experience: stuff you had done independently. More and more that's becoming a requirement to get a good job out of college, at least in certain fields. Combined with your ability to speak intelligently about that experience, it sounds like the hiring decision was pretty easy. What I've found more common, is recent graduates who expect their degree /alone/ will get them a great job out of college, and that's becoming more and more difficult.

Edit: After reading my comment, I don't think I made it clear enough that I'm agreeing with your point about people not marketing or educating themselves adequately. After spending 4 years in college, I think a lot of people expect to show up at a job interview, show the interviewer their degree, and get a job. The reality is obviously quite different.

This is also true. Especially in smaller companies, passion is one of your main criteria. Someone without side projects or perhaps a history of open source collaboration just isn't as passionate as someone who has those things.

Same here.

The issue with most people is that "you don't know what you don't know", coupled with the fact that most still have the idea that college/on the job training will suffice, while many companies are no longer providing training.

It takes a specific mentality to take the time to learn a craft with little to no immediate benefit in sight--you see this in other fields too, but they're not the norm.

The question is, do we try to change our culture to generate more self-starters, or do we change the institutions that need skilled labor?

In my opinion, the latter (the former will work itself out). All these startups we're starting, we need to remember this when they start growing and maturing. It's a kind of giving back that benefits you, too.

It seems that getting a programming job that way only works if you know someone at the company, or the company is small. Unfortunately, in my experience with both sides of the process, you won't even be considered for a job at a big tech company without the right degree--your application doesn't make it through their first filter.

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