Hacker News Reader

Comment by suprgeek | Hacker News Reader

It is easy to beat up on big complicated monitoring software - call it Enterprise Level and then proceed to find flaws. There is a reason it is complicated - because it tries to solve Tough problems: Can these other offerings give me:

1) High-availability with minimal downtime (seconds)

2) I18N readiness & L10n language packs

3) Scale on the order of 10000 or 100K

4) Guaranteed delivery of Alerts and Metrics

5) Easy Deployment and configuration - where the first step is NOT download and deploy Redis and configure it.

Make no mistake I love open source offerings but having worked in this domain for a while, Enterprise software becomes complicated to solve complicated problems with minimal intervention by users - not every IT shop has super-duper DevOps ninjas who Crunch Machine Learning Pardigms for breakfast.

View on HN

Excuse the cynical POV here, but it's from a number of years of dealing with such things. The problems I find with enterprise software as a rule are it solves the above but fails at:

1) Realistic scaling. Just about every piece of enterprise grade software I've seen falls off a cliff when it hits a certain load point. This is ALWAYS enough to sell it to you. When it goes wrong...

2) When it goes wrong, it's a nightmare of maintenance contracts, verification, finger pointing and telephone calls that last hours.

3) It rarely works as advertised. I mean literally 1% works as advertised.

4) Trials and realistic evaluations without crazy constraints are not usually possible (this is changing slowly).

5) Installation is a breeze but when it comes to backup/restore and upgrade, it's a pain in the butt.

Time is money. The difference between "enterprise level software" and "OSS" platforms are the following:

* OSS time is spent up front.

* Enterprise time is spent later on and costs more up front.

I'd rather have one Ninja on the team and lose the enterprise software. Ninjas scale better as well.

this.

I do a lot of work in Enterprise CMS land and Open Source land and you've essentially described my experiences working with ALL Enterprise CMS's I've used since the early 00's. I'm pretty convinced that within about 18 months Open Source CMS's will have negated any residual technical benefits that Enterprise platforms offer.

At this point the only competitive advantage Enterprise CMS vendors will have is their reputation and the "nobody ever got fired for buying IBM" attitude and commercial support.

With many other businesses sprouting up to provide commercial support for open source platforms I can see many Enterprise vendors having to pull up their socks and shaking up how they sell and manage their platforms in the very near future.

My favorite aspect of this is that enterprise support is often very bad and unknowledgeable about the product if you try to do something that's the least bit uncommon or outside their script.

You would think people focused on knowing just one product would know something about it.

Not at all - they know shit. Unfortunately "enterprise software companies" hire the lowest bidder in the lowest bidding country and they hire the lowest bidding staff.

This is especially true of Microsoft who I've had the pleasure of dealing with their highest level of Gold Partner support with respect to an IE9 bug that broke ClickOnce entirely.

Basically: absolutely fucking useless, blame the client, wriggle out of having to do anything.

That was until they met me. 35 phone calls (I shit you not), 3 heated arguments, spread bad press all over stackoverflow and MS connect, blog whinge and finally a half arsed registry fix that we had to deploy across 2000 disparate clients!

6 fucking months it took and we're a MS Gold Partner. It cost us more than our subscription cost in bad rep, time and support costs.

My experience buying enterprise software (an ecommerce platform):

1. Support? Don't make me laugh. Maybe once you've delivered to them a paper trail 2 miles long proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that your installation is compliant with their recommendations, you might get through to a low level guy who will give you advice like: "That's a lot of products, can you reduce the number of products you sell on your site"?

2. Ease of use? Installation of this software was a total nightmare. It basically only operated in 2 modes. 1) The wizard/demo mode which could not be used for production. 2) Find a consultant with the magic set of ancient ant build scripts to pass around.

3. Scaling? Theoretically built in, in practice just as difficult as scaling any other framework. It only requires you get the above consultant to talk to another consultant to get the super secret scripts which jump past the orm and hit the database (which by the way isn't supported by the product anyways).

4. Most features were either implemented just far enough to convince CTO's there was a check in that feature box or were so "generic", that all you had to do was "write a class which implements the feature" and plug it in. For this (the privilege of being able to inject code using their home-grown dependency injection system), we payed through the nose.

5. Backup/Restore? Literally a f!@#! unsolved problem. Required a pretty much simultaneous snapshot of the filesystem of every app server as well as all the databases.

After several months I became convinced that the only reason this super expensive platform existed was to provide jobs for consultants. Then I (briefly) became one before joining a startup.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com