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Comment by LorenDB | Hacker News Reader

Relevant Elon tweet: https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1829317832489816083

So it's for existing customers, and it's because they're unable to accept payment for reasons that aren't the customers' fault.

To be fair, Starlink can't continue offering services to new customers either because they've been effectively forbidden from doing business there.

(The merits of the case and each parties viewpoints are a separate matter.)

Is this judge freezing SpaceX’s finances because Twitter won’t censor speech?

Those are two completely different companies.

Why is them being separate companies relevant when they have the same ownership?

If a judge goes after you they go after all your assets.

They don't have the same ownership though. Imagine if you own 70% of one company and 40% of another, and then the company you own 40% of is de-banked in a country because the company you own 70% of chose to stop doing business in that country. It's corruption at an unprecedented scale.

How is this corruption just because countries have different rules and laws? Not every country has the same laws like the US/Angloshpere. Just because you don't like the ruling, and see it as unfair, doesn't automatically make it corruption.

Did the judge break Brazilian laws? If yes, then we can say it's corruption.

Not saying there isn't corruption in Brasil since there definitely is, I'm saying, is this particular ruling a case of corruption by Brasil's laws, yes or no?

It is not as simple as that.

The law said that 2+2=4 and this was the accepted jurisprudence but now he is saying that 2+2=5 because he wants and he can do that because he is a supreme court judge and his decisions legally are the new accepted interpretation of the law.

It's a flaw in Brazilian political that enables supreme court judges to virtually do whatever they want including legislating because they can pick any law and bend it. In a healthy system the supreme court would be challenged by the senate but this doesn't happen because most senators are corrupt and it is the supreme court who judge such cases.

let me fix that for you: ..because Twitter won’t suppress criminal speech. (see if it makes sense now).

I don’t think the technicalities of incorporation and branding matter that much, it’s a “Elon Musk company”, unfortunately.

That’s thuggish, lawless behavior that undermines trust in Brazil’s business environment.

I think it's normal to hold the CEO/high suits of a company ultimately accountable.

It's possibly immoral? It's not really lawless if the local Supreme Court makes the decision.

Some countries hold executives and figureheads responsible cross companies. This is actually a good thing.

The SpaceX board can now decide if they want to keep someone like Elon up. If this cost is worth keeping Elon around then the free market has spoken :)

It sounds like they’re freezing one companies payments due to the conduct of another company. Aren’t these two totally distinct legal entities? Whether they share a figurehead that doesn’t sound like a place I would want to start my business in ?

Musk has nearly 80% voting control, and 40% equity. So he has more control over the board than they do over him.

If there is one place where technicalities should matter, that is in a court of law.

SpaceX is only 40% owned by Musk.

Sometimes what matters is voting control, not ownership. If the same entity has >50% control in two companies, the companies may not be seen as fully independent before the law.

The fact that the same person owns both does not necessarily make them dependent on one another unless they are structured or operated in a way that intertwines their activities, finances, or management.

I think the point is that if the same person is accountable for both, they're pretty much "intertwined".

Imagine we realized that Sundar Pichai also had a major position in Costco. So then we started to crash Costco to make Sundar Pichai direct Google policy. And the stakeholders in both companies who don't care and are just using this as retirement strategy are exposed.

This has some major levels of "I want to direct a result so badly I'm going to start spilling harms all over the fucking place" kind of economic policy.

The idea is that responsibility is held by the CEO/owner in control. So if someone owns companies A and B and they do something illegal through company A, then it's logical to say that the CEO/owner of company B has committed something illegal (it's the same person!).

I understand certain CEOs are elected by their respective boards, so it's then their decision to keep someone like this onboard.

I'd also question the bigger picture - how come is a single person allowed to be at head of so many companies. Can they really be an effective CEO in this case?

Well, he is still the CEO, the CTO and Chairman.

In a lot of countries, executives (which Elon is clearly the top most here) have personal legal responsibilities.

Also, if I understand correctly, Musk is playing the game of having no legal entity in Brazil but still to technically stay present in the country (and probably make business but I’m unsure).

IDK if making him pay with another of its companies is legal but in that precise situation, it does feel pretty moral.

On the substance of the case of this censorship conflict, I have not enough information to make my judgment but still, Brazil is a sovereign country with its laws and Twitter have no natural right to be present in Brazil while still not respecting the law.

isnt it funny how its completely obvious, yet the mere mention of this attracts a downvote brigade on this site.

"Free... until this matter is resolved."

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