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Comment by replete | Hacker News Reader

I hope one day they can fix the engineering problems so I can buy a machine and keep it for more than two years without fear of some cheap components exploding. A purchased computer should work for a decade at least. If this sounds over the top, look at what the repair shop guys are saying...

Edit: Thanks for the downvotes, its not popular but an unfortunate reality. These issues are related to 2016-present Apple laptops. My 2012 MBA is running just fine, but I cannot trust these soldered systems.. there's other content around about the 13v being dumped into the SSDs when another component fails. There are engineering issues.

If you want to understand what I'm talking about:

Apple SSDs engineered in the worst way possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qbrLiGY4Cg

Exploding USB-C MacBook Ports Explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAGnMR1aVuE

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My 2014 pro is still going strong

There are some people with 300k on their original Chevy Silverado transmission. But there are MANY people that have them blow up every 100k miles. So, would you say the 4l60e is a good transmission because yours went 300k?

Im in the Central valley and have helped at least 5 friends replace or rebuild theirs. If you visit a transmission shop, this is the transmission that keeps them in business because it's one of the few cars where someone will still spend $3k to fix a 20 year old car.

Well the repair cost if you have this problem on a computer would approach the used value of the computer, so its likely to become ewaste. It wasn't a problem before the 2016 machines, and its still a problem on the current machines. Meanwhile my pre-2016 apple laptops are still in use by family members without issue

I agree with you. I was responding to the guy that said his is fine..... As if that proves anything. So I gave the 300k mile example of the most troubled transmission in the industry.

My 2012 11" MBA is the same, love that machine. It's an issue with 2016-present laptops unfortunately

I knew I'd get downvoted, but there are known SSD / T2 chip issues with 2016+ macs. Still present in Mx mac laptops. 2012 Macbook Air was my favourite laptop ever. See Louis Rossman etc... if you get lucky you get lucky, but I don't like the odds, so Apple hardware for me is a subscription model...

I have not heard anything about SSD issues from my friends in the IT department who service hundreds of laptops…

Personally I’m still running an M1 MacBook Air which has been bulletproof for almost 4 years now. Before that I ran a 12” MacBook for 5 years. My last problem with a Mac laptop was in the 17” PowerBook days, circa 2010 (I suspect the case flexed and damaged the logic board)

I figure in an enterprise setting, machines get replaced within a few years?

I simply don't trust these latest machines to last without a particular issue happening. There's a fair amount online from the repair shops guys who are repeatedly encountering this issue. It seems like some kind of buck converter fails earlier than expected due to being run closer to its limits, and when it goes it dumps 13v into the SSD chips, destroying them, and bricking the machine, requiring SSD desoldering and component replacement, which isn't cheap or easy to fix. What % risk is unknown, but if the failure appears to be MTTF being reached early, then the longer I hold onto the machine the more likely I will encounter the issue and I don't fancy the risk...

My 2012 11" MBA is still absolutely fine, its the machines after 2016 to now that have the same issue.

okay I'll bite...

Which hardware are you using that has more longevity than a typical Mac laptop?

I've become increasingly annoyed by the software deterioration, with my laptop losing gobs of power while "sleeping". The only thing stopping me from changing back to windows for my next laptop is (my perception of) the terrible hardware choices on that side.

My mental model for typical windows laptops is that they are worse brand-new (e.g. screen, trackpad, battery life) and have wildly worse longevity.

It's about a specific issue known in the 2016+ laptops, I just don't want to carry the risk of this known issue bricking my laptop out of warranty. And still exists in the current ones.

I have a 2012 i7 Thinkpad T530, that is still useful. My whole life desktop machines are usually useful for about a decade. Cheap laptops don't seem to last more than 4-5 years at most, but the top end laptops built really well can last a long time. It's nice to hand useful technology down to family members also.

Low power sleep states seem to have been broken for many years in most laptops. Apple machines do not have this issue it appears.

there isn’t an “issue” beyond the TPM being a potential point of failure, and all x86 laptops nowadays have a similar TPM and similar point of failure.

What do you think happens if your AMD cpu dies? That cpu has a pluton security module inside and if it dies, bye bye bitlocker keys.

you’re getting downvoted because you’re spreading decade-old FUD from the days before the tech community had wrapped their head around TPM. Any secure system is going to be equally dead if your TPM dies and this very much includes every windows laptop etc.

There absolutely are issues, whether you accept it or not, and it is nothing to do with 'not trusting TPM'.

Apple SSDs engineered in the worst way possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qbrLiGY4Cg

Exploding USB-C MacBook Ports Explained: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAGnMR1aVuE

none of those have anything particular to do with the T2 chip and if the TPM in your windows laptop got clobbered you'd still lose all your data anyway. The physical shape of the SSD is irrelevant in that scenario since you lost the key to decrypt it regardless.

again, yes, I know rossman doesn't like apple laptops but this has nothing to do with the T2 chip being some hidden landmine or defect. People just aren't used to the idea of the TPM being a thing that controls their data integrity.

One if the issues is the t2 failing and dumping 13v into the SSD , destroying it. Nothing to do with fear of TPM.

Old ThinkPads wear like iron. Even some of the newer Lenovo ones with the crappy keyboards. I have one such from 2014, it was some guy's DJ machine before I bought it and it still works great.

+1 on 2012 Macbook Air. That thing was the best.

I still have a 2012 Air. It's on its second battery, which is shot, but until recently everything else worked. Unfortunately the mic has mostly stopped working as of late. Still, we got a lot of use out of that thing, and my kids still use it--just can't use it for video conf any more.

Exactly, it's great to hand things down to family like that. And with the 2016+ laptops, with these known issues, its quite possible it just becomes ewaste with an expensive repair that you can't do yourself at home

The 11" MBA was my favourite laptop ever. Powerful enough to do full development workloads, small enough to take anywhere.

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