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Comment by next_xibalba | Hacker News Reader

The net negative migration from California to other states might indicate otherwise. My wife and I are currently contemplating moving to California. I'm comparing cost of living (housing, taxes, transpo, food, etc.). Using real data, it currently pencils out to >40% increase in our expenses. Pretty tough sell.

Edit: to the replies– It's not just housing. Granted, housing is a big chunk of the budget. But it's everything else too. My grocery bill would go up 33%. My state income tax would go from zero to 8%. Gas is, on average, 43% more expensive. And I'm not looking at moving to the Bay Area. I'm looking at moving to Fresno.

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That trend has changed: CA now has a slight incoming migration, like it used to.

And yes, it's more expensive. But that's the price you pay for reaping the benefits of living in CA.

Source? The best data I've seen comes from the Census Bureau, and their numbers haven't been updated for 2023. In 2022, it was net negative.

Edit: State of California Department of Finance also estimates this, but states that 2023 saw "Domestic out-migration slowed in 2022-23, to a net domestic migration loss of 260,400 people." [1]

https://dof.ca.gov/forecasting/demographics/estimates/e-2/

> But that's the price you pay for reaping the benefits of living in CA.

What benefits? They said they are moving to Fresno, so not even decent weather.

Things like better worker protections than any other state. You know, the very topic which spawned this thread.

Fair enough in some cases, not sure he's getting much benefit in Fresno though.

It’s a complex feedback loop. On one hand the economy is great. On the other the housing policy is completely messed up. So you get a lot of new wealth that than chases too few houses, pushing everyone else out.

Housing policy is finally changing, with the state government forcing municipalities to build. Hopefully that leads to a slower growth in prices (with such a red hot economy, I don't expect prices to fall much, if at all).

Housing is more expensive. Gas and groceries, too. Anything you can buy online costs the same as anywhere else. We moved to the Bay Area from Nebraska and my base salary is literally 5x my total comp there. That means I only have to work 1/5th as long to get anything I can find on Amazon. A new car is a fifth as much. Netflix is a fifth the price.

In some important ways, CA is very expensive. In others, its ludicrously cheap.

Given how populous California is, it could be one of the most desirable states and still lose people. Likewise, a low population state like Idaho doesn't need much net inflow to grow by large percentage margins.

> Gas is, on average, 43% more expensive.

If you can do your job remotely, then go for that.

If you can, but don't want to or you opted for hybrid, that's on you.

Otherwise, that shouldn't be a huge factor unless you drive a gas guzzler.

Every time you drive you put your life on the line. IMO that's a pretty huge factor.

Is your job worth dieing for?

>If you can, but don't want to or you opted for hybrid

How many really "opt for hybrid" in these times where so many places are forcing RTO?

Take a remote job with a California wage but live in a better-run state.

I already do that. This isn't career motivated. Had a kid and wife wants to live closer to grandparents. It falls to me to run the numbers, and boy are they ugly.

Is the family portable? Like it might be cheaper to buy them a house near you.

That would be the ideal scenario. We've pitched this to the grandparents and they aren't biting.

Maybe visit them a bunch with the kid for a while to hook them on the drug, then stop doing it and renew the invitation for them to move. That's what my parents did to my grandparents.

It’s true that California is experiencing outmigration but that’s primarily driven by the fact that Democratic Party voters like to use the phrase “preserve our community” to mean the same sentiment as “build the wall”.

The anti-non-compete is a good thing but it’s not anywhere near a big factor for the vast majority of people.

If nobody wants to live there then why is it so expensive?

"Aside from the bit of unpleasantness how did Mrs. Lincoln find the play?" Because the people who don't want to live there factor in the very real "traffic costs". For a similar reason to why hosting the Olympics is a disappointment to tourist countries: it doesn't add new tourists on top, it replaces the existing set as others avoid the country due to the crowds.

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