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Comment by blacklion | Hacker News Reader

PayPal: In Netherlands there is system called iDeal which provide online payments via tokens, without giving any of your data to seller (recipient). It is supported by all banks. It is super-convinient, you scan QR code by bank app on your smartphone if you pay on other device (laptop, computer) or link is opened by your bank app on mobile and you approve payment. You don't need to enter anything, only select your bank from the list. You don't need to pass your payment data to 3rd party like PayPal, there is no place to steal or phish your card or account data in this scheme.

Visa or MC could do the same, without additional parties. But no.

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Just back from Poland- they have a great system 'BLIK' that sounds like iDeal...

Most merchants have a BLIK button... you click it, enter a 6 digit code created on your banking app. Purchase complete. Takes a few seconds. No card numbers, CCV etc..

Same thing in Ukraine. And it's not because they face less fraud attempts, it's just their tech is years ahead of US.

Their tech is years ahead of US.

Can you elaborate? (Am new to the topic, so your perspective would be appreciated).

Hard to pick up one thing among multiple.

For example, transfers between accounts are instantaneous, not 2-5 days for ACH (Wire transfers are same-day, but expensive).

Electronic menus/payments in cafes are default for at least 3 years now (US has toasttab.com but it's far from being default).

If you have a small business account, taxes are paid in one click (app shows you tax to be paid with Confirm button).

PS: These features are available in many other countries besides Ukraine, of course. Only in government id/functions Ukraine excels (#2 in the world, after Estonia only).

Good to know, thanks.

Let’s just say I get an iPhone notification when the court case in which I’m a party had a hearing sceduled.

And if I want to write a petition in this case, I log into the web portal, write it down, click send and blink into the app twice to Electronically sign it.

Which produces your normal CMS ( pkcs#7 ) signature on a pdf file.

It’s also not a special court app for a specific locality, but a nation wide government app.

Wr also don’t write damn cheques and never did, as it’s bullshit. You want to somebody —- you get their card number, open the bank app and tap send.

Would this be the єСуд app, then?

That's certainly an interesting use case. And yes, difficult to see being pulled off anywhere in the US, the way it tumbles along with such things.

Re: paper checks: they're far from bullshit -- being time-tested, perfectly easy to use, and best of all, not requiring a device of any kind. Provided, as concerns ease of use, one has spent enough time in an environment where their use is ubiquitous. So I can certainly see they might appear as a nuisance or just weird at first, for the rest of the world).

iDeal is working on international expansion, so it may become available in other European places.

The main downside of iDeal for consumers is that it's irreversible. If you pay and then never receive the product, you can't get your money back. While PayPal and credit cards do offer that extra protection to consumers.

So iDeal is really only good for the merchants due to the very low transaction costs.

I believe Vipps in Norway is similar as well

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