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Comment by z3t4 | Hacker News Reader

My empirical study of happy people comes down to these three points:

    * Have low expectations
    * Enjoy simple things
    * Don't care too much

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Is a happy life a good life? I'm really not sure, but pursuit of the former is more of a modern conception of value as far as I can tell.

Living a happy life and living a meaningful life aren't entirely the same thing. Not that you claimed they were, but I personally find it fruitful to cognate on the different lifestyles implied by optimizing for different values and how they fit together.

In particular, as we get older I think we also get more skillful at handling our own internal and external conditions to create a comfortable-like happiness. However, one of those skills is filtering out potentials for discomfort from unexpected events. Well made plans and expertly crafted systems of comfort also function as barriers between you and the larger world in a sense. Is that desirable?

In my experience, negative-valence emotions like non-panic fear, confusion, dissatisfaction, et al necessarily invoke an associated underlying value, providing a creative and productive impetus to produce said value(s). How desirable is that?

</musings>

> but pursuit of the former [ happiness ] is more of a modern conception ..

Not at all, Epicurus

     asserted that philosophy's purpose is to attain as well as to help others attain happy (eudaimonic), tranquil lives characterized by ataraxia (peace and freedom from fear) and aponia (the absence of pain).

    He advocated that people were best able to pursue philosophy by living a self-sufficient life surrounded by friends.

    He taught that the root of all human neuroses is denial of death and the tendency for human beings to assume that death will be horrific and painful, which he claimed causes unnecessary anxiety, selfish self-protective behaviors, and hypocrisy.

~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus

I would add optional 4) for those who like some improvement in life (and who doesn't) - recognize those few important moments/periods when situation comes around that can change rest of your life, or walk towards it and create one yourself. Work hard with it, achieve what you desire to, and come back to more, even better chill.

It can have many forms - which job you take, where you decide to move/settle, partners, family decisions etc.

One random example - I know tons of people from ie high school that could permanently improve their lives if they properly (re)learned a given foreign language. They have plenty of time. But they are too much in their 'comfort' zone to even try, even though they are rarely actually long term happy. Sometimes the effort would be couple of months, sometimes one long afternoon.

Another personal one - moving to a better country. Few challenging months of looking for job on site (which also gave tons of personal growth and mental resilience), accommodation, understanding and adapting to different society etc. and riding the resulting improved situation for rest of my life. Nobody too chill is ever going to wade through that.

One mistake is to start effort and just keep pushing for next challenges and achievements. Eventually everybody hits the wall, physical or mental. It may look great from outside, but thats about it. And a lot of damage in life can be already done at that point.

I think it's fundamentally important to care deeply about some things e.g. your craft. As you tend to find joy when you're deep in flow state.I'd also add:

* Don't argue with people on the internet

You'd be inherently happier, also:

* Enjoy irony when you can

Arguing is enjoyable and helps build the foundation of your beliefs IMO. Where people go wrong is expecting the other person to be converted to your beliefs or swayed by your argument. Even given the exact same data, evidence, and information, people can naturally and logically come to different conclusions. And ultimately, people will choose to believe (or not) what they want.

There's really something quite magical when you're having a debate with someone with vastly different views but they're reasonable and you both find common ground. Probably a good indication of partner compatibility - I don't think it's healthy if you and your partner have exactly the same views.

It certainly reflects my experience. A lot of my friends I people I will have arguments, frequently on topics that make people emotional and on which we have very different views: politics (including Brexit!), religion, gender identity, and so on.

On the other hand that was not true of my EX-wife.

You're right, but sometimes you gotta realise you're being trolled or the person you're arguing with is not arguing in good faith. Maybe that's what he meant.

Still. At a minimum the troll will have fun, and when you notice it you can troll in return

I've found that caring deeply about one's craft leads to being unhappy when the craft isn't perfect, unhappy with teammates who don't care as much as they do, unhappy with an industry that doesn't focus on the craft, unhappy with the customer who doesn't respect the end result, etc. That leads to conflict, and then nobody is happy. You can still care without caring deeply.

I'm trying to find how to maintain passion, drive and fun. The 'low expectations' philosophy always feel gray to me.

Yeah, I see a lot of what OP recommended as strategies to suppress and numb, which I think don't work very well for also having passion, drive, and fun.

Almost; you're missing gratitude. It's the "one weird trick" to happiness.

Not caring much is such a slippery slope, because it's so easy to turn it to a default.

Apathy is the opposite of love, not hate. A life of apathy, is a life without love.

Apathy is the opposite of both love and hate (and several other things), because both of the latter require caring about a thing.

A geometric simplex, not a simple linear scale: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplex

Indeed, if apathy is the absence of caring, and caring is part of both love and hate, then I don't think any of these are opposites of each other, they are merely things that can not co-exist.

I often wonder if apathy is just the belief that one is without love, not actually being without love. I think we die pretty fast if we don't have love and attachment to things, even at the most basic level of air, water, food, and shelter.

not caring as in, not caring if you get rejected. Not caring what others think when you peruse what makes you happy.

Unfortunately, you can fit most of the field of philosophy inside the nuances of item 3.

These points suggest a mindset that values contentment over constant pursuit of more

Can reduce these to:

- Convert your personal Needs to your Wants/Wishes.

Happy simple people maybe.

You have to take into account the difference of each mind's disposition between people. There are people who would just read those 3 bullet points and be disgusted. Some people need an empty pointless life and are "happy". Some people need struggle, challenge and difficulty, otherwise they cant be happy.

People and minds are extremely complicated. To me, having low expectations and not caring too much is a sign of a defeated person with no spirit. That is sad

This is a horrible way to live a life.

Im sure ifbits perfectly fine if you pair it with a nice lead based diet.

Forgot the most important one:

* have money

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