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Comment by magic_man | Hacker News Reader

It doesn't matter it was 100% crowdstrikes fault. Surprised its still worth 60billion dollars.

Part of the problem is assuming you can pay a contract to shift your liability completely away.

Right, the risk structure presumably protects the vendor if just one customer sues, even if the amount of damages claimed is astronomical. Because vendors try to disclaim bet-the-company liability on a single contract.[1] The vendor's game is to make sure the rest of the customer base does not follow this example, because as noted in the linked article while vendors don't accept bet-the-company liability on each contract (or try not to), they do normally have some significant exposure measured in multiples of annual spend.

[1] https://www.gs2law.com/blog/current-trends-in-liability-limi...

The assumption is not only perfectly valid, it's the very reason such contracts are signed in the first place! It's what companies want to buy, and it's what IT security companies exist to sell.

Yes, I know that's what everyone wants/thinks, but you actually can't do it. Because at the end of the day, you chose the vendor. So you are still liable for all of it.

Well if MSFT knew how to write MSAs Crowdstrike would have become property of Microsoft.

Yes and no.

Crowdstrike was the executioner of this epic fail for sure but their archaic infra practices made it even worse. Both Crowdstrike and Microsoft CEOs reached out only to be rebuffed by Delta's own. If I was the CEO - I'd accept any help I can get while you have the benefit of the public opinion.

/tin-foil-hat-on Flat out refusal for help makes me think there are other skeletons in the closet that makes Delta look even worse /tin-foil-hat-off

> I was the CEO - I'd accept any help I can get while you have the benefit of the public opinion

I’d reserve judgement. Delta may have been cautious about giving the arsonists a wider remit.

In this case, the fire was an accident, and the arsonists happen to be the expert firefighters, and they're very motivated to fix their mistake. They're still the experts in all stuff fire, whereas Delta is not.

Using your analogy - if MS/CS are the arsonists, then Delta are the landlords unsafely storing ammonium nitrate in their own warehouse.

Their lack of response to MS/CS isn't coming from a place of reducing potential additional problems but trying to shield their own inadequacies while a potential lawsuit is brewing in the background.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-blames-delta-it...

It doesn't seem like arsonist is the right word. It implies it was intentional, which as far as I can tell there is no proof of.

I think the more accurate description would be some firefighters were doing a controlled burn. The burn got out of controlled and then you say that you don't want the firefighters help in put out the fire.

If you held the view that CrowdStrike and Microsoft were inherently to blame for the problem why would you trust them to meaningfully help? At best they're only capable of getting you right back into the same position that left you vulnerable to begin with.

Same reason why an aircraft manufacturing company would get involved in a NTSB investigation when there is an airplane crash. Just because they messed up one or more things (i.e. MCAS on MAX) doesn't mean they can't provide expertise or additional resources to at least help with the problem.

Your take also casually disregards the fact that Delta took an extraordinary time to recover from the problem when the other companies recovered (albeit slowly). This is the point that I'm getting at. It isn't that CS and MS aren't culpable for the outage; it's that DAL also contributed to the problem by not adequately investing in its infra.

> Same reason why an aircraft manufacturing company would get involved in a NTSB investigation when there is an airplane crash

Key difference here is that the NTSB is third party with force of law behind it. The victims in the crash – airlines and passengers – aren't rushing to the aircraft manufacturer to come fix things. Quite the opposite: the NTSB and FAA have the authority to quarantine a crash site and ensure nobody tampers with the evidence. Possible tampering with black boxes was an issue in the investigation of Air France Flight 296Q.

Being to blame is different than being actively trying to sabotage you. Many companies will be re-evaluating their relationship after this problem happened, but doing that while your systems aren't functional seems counter-productive.

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