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Comment by protonvpn | Hacker News Reader

This is false. Proton VPN's no logs policy has been proven in court and backed by third party audits: https://protonvpn.com/blog/no-logs-audit

VPN is not classified as a communication tool in Switzerland and there are no existing Swiss laws that can compel us to log.

The Proton VPN Transparency Report & Warrant Canary is also still available at: https://protonvpn.com/blog/transparency-report

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Proven in court is ultimately what I think most users really care about.

Thanks for sharing this.

How do we know this isn’t another CIA/Swiss front? Just like Crypto AG.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51467536.amp

Some of us also remember Hushmail.

https://www.wired.com/2007/11/encrypted-e-mai/

There is no comparison between Crypto AG and us. Our encryption occurs client-side and our cryptographic code is open source and backed by third-party audits: https://proton.me/community/open-source

One thing that might put others at ease is having a way for client-side code to NOT be automatically updated, as some view this as a type of backdoor or method that malicious code might be injected without being noticed, even if unintentional.

Do you really expect anyone to be able to answer this? How would anyone ever know before it's too late? Nobody would use it if they knew, and they know that too.

People have too short memory to remember this

There is an unanswered bug report from March that suggests Stealth is not working in Russia:

https://github.com/ProtonVPN/android-app/issues/130

Protonvpn logged ips at the request of the Swiss government on behalf of the French government as a political favor.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/6/22659861/protonmail-swiss-...

Protonvpn does log data and does hand it over. It doesn't matter if they "had to" (they can fight) You can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Do you even read your own source? Even the truncated URL says Protonmail... a search for "VPN" in that article comes with "Yen said a similar order would also not be able to provide ProtonVPN metadata, as VPNs are subject to different requirements under Swiss law."

Sure you can refuse to believe the company's statement, but your comment is based on your (maybe deliberate, conveniently) misunderstanding of mail vs VPN...

Protonvpn is protonmail. They're the same company. They choose to operate in a way that allows user IP's to be given for arbitrary political reasons. They will do it with VPN too if they're "requested".

You appear to misunderstand the discussion.

Under Swiss law Email is communication which is subject to a VPN which is not classified as a communications medium and subject to different laws.

There is no way a legitimate company can insulate itself from legal compulsion. However a legitimate security company can do everything within the law to protect users. Proton does this and has been legally tested.

Their claim: they have to follow the Swiss laws, the laws for mail providers and the laws for VPN providers are separate, and one of them requires IP logging, and the other doesn't.

Your claim: they're just doing whatever the hell they want, whatever is "politically" expedient for them. Without any substance behind it.

Considering Switzerland's reputation as low-corruption country, i.e. having a government that follows the rules, I can imagine the VPN department will fight such a "request" as you say in their court of law, but hey, I bet your guts know it all.

Following the law is not arbitrary. Nobody is going to jail for you, your data is not that important. And there is literally no better country to do this in. Whatever you think Proton could be would be a company you shouldn't trust in the first place.

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