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Comment by on_the_train | Hacker News Reader

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> I'd like if we could have an honest discussion about if we just want to ban pet dogs altogether.

We can discuss, but the answer is going to be "No".

Humans and dogs have had a shared society for thousands of years. People are socially bonded with their pets like family members. Dogs aren't going anywhere any time soon.

You could probably apply the same logic to cars.

Side note: dog feces can be processed by municipal water treatment, but cat feces cannot, as it has too many bacteria and diseases that are dangerous to humans. Those who are pregnant shouldn't even clean the litter box. As such, we should probably include cats in any ban.

Cats usually shit in a box, and don't make noises. Most of my problem is really the noise. Dogs make up a significant amount of all nose pollution. They're the reason I can't open the windows in the summer. They offer no benefit to society (only to their owners).

Cat waste doesn't stay in the box, but goes into public landfills.

I have three cats, and while they don't bark, the amount of damage and noise they make running and jumping around, not to mention the damage they do with their claws, is as annoying as the noise my dogs make (of course, the cat-sized dog is the noisiest one)

As for the claim that dogs make up a significant amount of noise pollution, on most lists that I can find, traffic, music, construction, aviation, and other sources seem to be far more predominant than dogs. Again, if we were to start banning sources of noise, I'd start with cars, loudspeakers, and fireworks.

I'm mostly with you. But for me, dogs have a infuriatingly big negative impact on my life.

You cannot ban dogs, they've been a critical part of humanity for centuries.

You can ban pet dogs and still have dogs be a critical part of humanity (as watch dogs, guard dogs, guide dogs, herding dogs, hunting dogs, sled dog, military dog, detection dog, the list goes on).

Controversial opinion, but I believe the pandemic basically ruined pet dog ownership, with a whole lot of disrespectful lazy animal 'lovers' taking on the responsibility of having a dog and making a mess of it. In the context of leash laws, scoop laws, noise ordinances, etc.. being at the lowest tier of enforcement from authorities, I definitely see why some people would want to outright ban dog ownership.

I agree. Same goes for alcohol. That taught us that responsible, enforced regulation helps prevent problems.

How do these things relate?

For things that are historically entrenched, outright bans don't go well.

> They're incredibly loud and leave their crap in the worst places.

This is mostly an owner issue and somewhat a socitial issue. Chronically problem dogs usually have an owner who is under-engaged.

Some breeds are more high strung and require a lot of attention. An owner may find themselves overwhelmed and under-equipped - likely because they didn't fully understand the animal they were committing to. They may become better owners with help and guidance.

And there are also owners who just suck. They won't pick up droppings and are content to leave the dog to bark for hours on end. A good local politician makes sure there are services available to help rectify those situations.

I'll gladly take your word for it. But it doesn't really matter. A loud barking dog can harm hundreds to thousands of people at the same time. And there's no effective way to combat that. It's even illegal to hurt them.

Not to mention burdening your in-laws with some feckless poop-everywhere dimwit of a canine, which we've been dealing with in this house for the past two weeks while said in-laws are in the Caribbean.

"But, but Nellie would hate the kennels, the noise of other dogs distracts her...".

Banned is right!

"No" is a word you should learn.

> I'd like if we could have an honest discussion

Ok, lets!

> if we just want to ban pet dogs altogether.

No. Next question.

I’d like to be able to brandish a dangerous weapon, and occasionally shoot it into the air.

It usually won’t hurt anyone!

It shocks me that dog owners think it’s OK to brandish their barely constrained, dangerous weapon around me and my young daughter…

People are waving their dogs at you and your daughter? Your angry feelings must be palpable to them and their trying to cheer you up.

I don't mind dogs; however, I regularly have to arrange myself between dogs and my daughter, in case they lunge.

How is that something I should need to do?

If I walked around brandishing a weapon and you had to put yourself between me and your daughter, you'd be OK with that?

My issue is with the word brandish, its making it read dramatic. You can't wave a dog around in an angry way.

You should also have your daughter walk on the non-street side of the sidewalk in case a car jumps the curb. Is that something your should need to do? Its life.

> They're incredibly loud and leave their shit in the worst places

That's an argument against unrespectful and uncivilized dog owners, not against dogs.

Indeed. In a free society, some people will use their freedom to be irresponsible or jerks. That is a problem that must be dealt with, but "take away freedom" is rarely (if ever) an acceptable solution.

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