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Comment by baq | Hacker News Reader

They sow chaos and then unleash the bots criticizing whoever is currently in office; then they unleash bots criticizing those bots and hope to drag in normal people.

Basically the idea is to erode trust in the western system. They don't try to hide it anymore and seems it doesn't matter - it's quite effective anyway.

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Yeah but this is more like "plan a minor disturbance of a high profile event. Get caught and galvanize the public to arm your enemies."

It doesn't erode trust in the western system.

This one was exceptional in every way. There are tens if not hundreds of examples in which they managed to not be so completely drunk to fail multiple times.

How do you distinguish between ones that are actually Russia and ones that are only asserted or implied to be Russia?

Or do you?

Sometimes the authorities find out, especially if it's a big fire of an ammo depot or a nerve agent wet job. Sometimes there is only circumstantial evidence. Sometimes you get used to it and you know it's them again.

> Sometimes you get used to it and you know it's them again.

You are using the colloquial versions of "know", and "is".

Yes, of course. You're taking what I've written out of context.

The context: I asked you a precise question about your claim, you answered it in the way you chose to.

You are welcome to clarify if you'd like.

Won’t be doing your googling for you today, I’m very sorry.

I believe this is in play:

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Shiftin...

Do you disagree?

The "get caught" part often doesn't happen. And even if they do get caught, as long as the main objective is achieved, it can be promoted as a show of strength so that next time the victims will play ball even before force is applied.

It's the mafia style, everyone knows who whacked whom.

I don't see how this shows strength.

Not everyone can pull off "a massive attack on a large scale to paralyse the TGV network" (literal quote from the rail operator). It's brutish, but it's a form of strength - like a mafia bully burning down your flower shop because you refused to pay.

Which is fine and expected, the goal here isn’t to impress you.

You have to look at this from the perspective of deeply broken people, full of malice and hardcore narcissism. Even if sabotage fails, they pat themselves on the back, rejoicing that they’ve increased paranoia and confusion, and start planning the next attack.

And if it provokes a response from their would be victims that results in Russian goals somewhere being ruined, they cry crocodile tears for pity and make themselves out to be martyrs, and plan the next attack.

There are many humans in this world with thoughts and motivations that are completely alien to others.

I mean if you gave an American the option between say NK and USA they'll probably chose USA. However, if you just omit a comparison and ask them if they trust the USA they'll probably say no.

That's the cleverness of this. You aren't trying to convince them that Russia is better. You're just trying to convince them that USA is failing compared to its previous self.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/508169/historically-low-faith-i...

This was in France.

Well, the French never had confidence in their government but it is down.

Slide 22 - https://www.sciencespo.fr/cevipof/sites/sciencespo.fr.cevipo...

According to their history of attacks on individuals, grand strategic logic often lags behind their desire for petty revenge. The government of France denied Russia's standing in this Olympics. This is simple reprisal.

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