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Comment by sourcepluck | Hacker News Reader

> I find it breathtaking how profound his understanding was of the dramatic changes that were about to happen as the computer became broadly accessible. Of course, beyond just being prophetic...

The author of this article should consider not reading any more about the history of computing for health reasons.

If that takes their breath away, they're at serious risk of going into cardiac arrest if they keep going and discover some of the many other fascinating figures from the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s who were enjoying speculating about the direction things would go in.

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Can you please not post snarky dismissive comments to HN? We're really trying for the opposite here, to the extent that is possible on the internet.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I wasn't attempting to be snarky or dismissive. I was framing my point in a playful, jokey way, sure, but it's not a snarky or dismissive point in itself.

I would like to think at least some people got that.

All I'm saying is that the 1980s (and the preceding decades) were full of people predicting and describing all sorts of things that then happened (as well as others getting it totally wrong). To find Jobs in 1983 "breathtaking" and "prophetic" is, to me, a bit of a hyperbolic take, considering the reality of that moment in history. Lots of interesting people were imagining the future, and making it happen.

One way to avoid this kind of misunderstanding - after you draft such a comment, imagine you were berated by a moderator (or another user, like here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40997406) then write the clarifying response (i.e. the "All I'm saying [...]" in this case). Throw away that first version and post the hypothetical response instead.

Is dang a moderator? Was there some way for me to know that?

In any case, if their comment was intended to "berate" me, I didn't take it that way. I believe the fear of my comment being intended as mere snark, though politely expressed, was misplaced, and have tried to lay out why.

The joke was meant to help to portray my point strongly, but there was no snarkiness - there's no indirect suggestion, or sarcasm.

A touch of hyperbole, yes, but it was intended to highlight the ahistorical and hyperbolic nature of the original claim in the article. Calling Jobs' comments in 1983 "breathtaking" and "prophetic" is, from my reading of the figures during that decade and the previous ones, grossly exagerrated.

dang is a moderator.

The joke was meant to help to portray my point strongly, but there was no snarkiness - there's no indirect suggestion, or sarcasm.

You can't talk to people on HN like that, it's fairly straightforwardly explained in the guidelines dang linked you. Parsing out whether it's truly 'snark' or not is not that important. Another way to look at it is that things that work fine in some settings - like people more familiar with each other in a group chat or more broadcasty setups like twitter - aren't suitable for HN.

Ok, well thank you for taking the time to clarify all this. I didn't intend to cause any issues. I sincerely thought my comments fall within the guidelines, and have re-read them since, and think perhaps I was misunderstanding what is really being suggested by the guidelines.

I don't think it's straightforwardly explained, but as a non-American, perhaps I was missing or underestimating some cultural assumptions and insinuations.

Could I have my account deleted then? I'm not interested in engaging in the manner which I now understand the guidelines to be suggesting, and would therefore much prefer to not have the account.

The parenthetical remark about the other user "berate"-ing me I find really a bit at odds with reality - it remains to be seen what that user intended, the whole comment was quite neutrally put I thought. I've responded at length attempting to answer their question(s), and am looking forward to seeing if a fruitful discussion develops.

I certainly don't see any scolding or criticism in their comment, and think it's quite possible that it's a misunderstanding.

Dang, could you delete my account? I've tried to look up how to do it and it seems to be possible only upon request from a moderator. I asked pvg below but got no answer.

I appreciate your polite intervention and that moderation is a hard job, but I've no interest in engaging further in the manner which I now understand from my exchange with pvg below that I'm supposed to have inferred from the guidelines.

I feel like my style of interacting is relatively consistent throughout my time on the site, but suddenly I get flagged twice when I'm making an unpopular point strongly. I refuse to go about softening my points because they're liable to be flagged, and would prefer to spare you the bother of having to step in. I'm just not interested in exchanging lowest-common-denominator type takes and worrying about flagging and popularity.

Anyway, no hard feelings, maybe a bit of cultural confusion, but I'll deal with that on my own side. If you could let me know if there's anything I can do to get the account deleted, that'd be great.

There's a low chance of dang seeing this .. not zero but not great.

You get better response emailing him direct hn@ycombinator.com

Thanks, will do

"The author of this article" is Jony Ive, who very possibly has dipped into other chapters of computer history

Can someone PLEASE try to find and link me to the audio interview with an early computer pioneer (maybe Alan Kay but I forgot exactly who) on a radio show, I think it was a British one, where he tries to explain to the interviewer why general-purpose computers are important. Like how we will be able to find whatever file we want quickly, and I think he speaks about music playing as well, and maybe knitting

Like the interviewer doesn’t get why we need it and keeps talking about how we can already do the things like find books using the Dewey Decimal system.

I remember listening to it and I can never seem to find it again. Anyone on HN know at least what the name of the show and/or interviewed person was?

It is like Bill Gates on Letterman but it was a radio show from the 60-80s? and took place for 10-30 minutes or so.

I would like to see this as well.

https://openvault.wgbh.org/catalog/V_D9DC82D997454711A71B586...

Honestly, I remember now getting this interview, but it isn't it. I looked through the whole transcript and the interviewer was not skeptical of computers, there was hardly any mention of the Dewey Decimal system etc.

Is there anything else? That one I had only audio, it a radio show I believe. And the guy was talking about music and dewey decimal system etc. Must have been 80s or 70s. It wasn't Alan Kay

This one with Ted Nelson? https://youtu.be/RVU62CQTXFI

It's got the skeptical interviewer, and at 9:56 (with some lead-in before) there is a discussion of libraries, catalogs, tagging, etc.

Edit: and then he goes on to mention Dewey Decimal as well.

Yess!! THANK YOU! For all these years, I couldn't find it. I appreciate this so much, thank you :)

Welcome :)

I looked very superficially and found this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=275FQ9koAw8

Do you mean Sir Jony Ive?

I fail to see how the British monarchy's approval of Mr. Ive's career path is in any way relevant here, I'm afraid!

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