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Comment by batista | Hacker News Reader

I, for one, find Pixar's storytelling extremely naive, paint-by-numbers kind of affair.

Like past Disney without the genius (e.g Fantasia, the dark forest scene in Snow White, etc) but with more puns thrown in. Or maybe "animated ho-hum Spielberg" is more apt.

Could be OK to take your kid to, but IMHO even kids (or especially kids) deserve better.

And not to be accused that I speak without offering an alternative, I think that something like "A nightmare before Christmas" is light years ahead of Pixar's work, in storytelling, artistic vision, and even visually (and I'm not saying that because of its "dark mood". Light stories could also be told in a more artistic way than Pixar's).

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While I will grant that Tim Burton can be clever I have never seen anything of his that carries the same emotional weight of Pixar's best works. Toy Story 3 was an amazing success and pulled off being a very emotional film while being a comedy/adventure. I know many people who cried or nearly cried toward the end who are parents with kids leaving their childhood behind. The first several minutes of UP are amazingly melancholy. The "dance" in space from Wall-E is downright beautiful and Wall-E's devotion to the girl robot when she is broken is rather heartwarming.

Incidentally according to BoxOffice Mojo Wall-E made 521 Million dollars.

> The "dance" in space from Wall-E is downright beautiful

IMO Wall-E is more of a work of pure art than a flick, for the first half or so (before the mad rush towards the climax at the end). The wonderful detail both in the derelict environment Wall-E trundles through at the begging and the genuine sense of awe once the story hits space are head and shoulders over most similar efforts.

You compare to some of the absolute masterpieces of animation, which might never be surpassed. But Pixars movies are still among the very best in the genre. Its like saying The Godfather is mediocre because it is not Citizen Kane.

Truly. My enjoyment of Monsters, Inc. takes nothing away from my awe of Akira.

Different movies, songs, activities for different moods, wants, desires.

It's been a tough year. So the partner and I have been watching a lot of romantic comedies. As a caveman, I'm surprised by how much I've been enjoying them.

Your point of view is kind of surprising. I couldn't stop watching Wall-E for example even for the 10th time, because I found it so unique and compelling.

Even if it was painted by numbers, there were lots of numbers and not just integers.

Not to say the plot was not predictable, if that is your primary issue.

Wall-E was pretty atypical for Pixar, and I believe their least successful movie.

Least successful? Doesn't appear to be. Fifth highest grossing for Pixar (out of 12) and the most Academy Award nominations.

"I, for one, find Pixar's storytelling extremely naive, paint-by-numbers kind of affair."

In the end it's about creating something that sells and makes money. If it has other benefits that's icing on the cake. (Although as you know many people prefer the icing to the cake...)

I think they have highs and lows. Wall-E was pretty much everything I would want in a big budget movie, but it wasn't a megahit. Then I see the previews for Brave, which looks dreadfully bad, and I can't help but think the company is changing.

Can you give some examples? Would improve your argument.

I'm not batista, but, he did give examples of better stuff. What do you mean as examples?

He didn't cover why they were better, just stated that they were.

It's not much of a critique to say that one thing is bad and another one is better. Batista didn't really give any explanation for why he thinks Pixar films are bad, which when you're talking about some of the world's highest approval-rating films, tends to be a bit content-free.

A detailed critique would be interesting; simply to say they're "naive" is... I dunno, naïve.

I think you're just searching for a reason to dislike Pixar films for the sake of disliking them. That's why you don't seem to be able to articulate your reasons very well. Have you heard of Armand White? He's a reviewer who always gives negative reviews to anything popular on rottentomatoes, so he can get more pageviews by having the one rotten review in a field of fresh ones. You and he would probably get on well.

I, for one, find Pixar's storytelling extremely naive, paint-by-numbers kind of affair.

Our human brains are puny and weird, and programmed to only enjoy one kind of story. Or rather, it's pretty weird that we enjoy any kind of story at all; why would we want to waste our time hearing about made-up stuff that never happened? But we do enjoy it... though only for a fairly narrow range of stories with a fairly narrow range of structures.

So not liking Pixar means I'm like this "Armand White" guy that doesn't like anything? Did you even notice that I gave TWO examples of things I consider better (old Disney, Nightmare before Xmas)?

The rest of your argument I find no much logic in it: "Our human brains are puny and weird, and programmed to only enjoy one kind of story. Or rather, it's pretty weird that we enjoy any kind of story at all; why would we want to waste our time hearing about made-up stuff that never happened? But we do enjoy it... though only for a fairly narrow range of stories with a fairly narrow range of structures"

WHere did you got that impression from? We like a great variety of storytelling modes and stories. Only the more naive like just bland, cookie cutter repetitions of the same narrow range of stories and structures (action blockbuster crap, the nth romantic comedy, etc).

In film, for example, we dont just have heroic/feel good/suggary Spielberg movies (the real movie Pixar equivalent if there ever was one). We have people from Scotchese and Copolla to Fincher and Riddley Scott, to Burton and Woody Allen, to Tarantino and Waters and Jarmoush...

"Two better examples"? If I said I liked BMWs and Jaguars more than I liked Aston Martins, would that be enough for you? Or would you like me to epand a little on why I said that?

Besides, the story in Nightmare before Christmas is pretty bland - you don't watch it a subsequent time to get wrapped up in the story. Its winning components are the musical numbers and the creative setting. As a whole, it's very good, but the rewatchability of the story component is fairly poor.

You are critizing Pixar films for having something in common? In animation we have different styles, Akira, Wall-E, Cindarella, Mononoke, Belleville, Grave of the Fireflies all very different, from different studios and directors. All Pixar productions have a certain common feel and common themes, just like eg. all Tarantino films.

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