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Comment by therobots927 | Hacker News Reader

Russia vs Ukraine? Yes it’s clear who the bad guy is in that situation (Russia). But there are plenty of countries allied with the US, and even the US itself sometimes, that commit atrocities like this. Guantanamo, for example, has inmates that are known by the government to be innocent who still haven’t been released. Probably because the government knows they would be swarmed by reporters trying to get full details on what was going on inside that torture chamber. Morality is besides the point. All that matters is your passport. Mine happens to be American. Doesn’t mean that I have to pretend like the US is morally superior to anyone.

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One wrong doesn't justify another wrong.

The scale of Putin's Russia crimes are stratospheric. It isn't only tortures, there's raping, kids kidnapping, castration, targeting civilians with bombs, etc. And that isn't all, in particular if you add what Putin's regime is doing against their own people. Also keep an eye on what's still happening in Syria, and what Wagner is doing in the Sahel region.

I am no fan of Russia and I thought I made that pretty clear? Also… targeting civilians with bombs… where have I heard about that happening lately…

The difference is, of course, scale.

The evil of Nazi Germany is notable because of the scale of their atrocities. This is the same with Russia where the evil is so systematic and widespread that it boggles the mind.

Trying to compare the evil of Russia today to something like Guantanamo can only be seen as furthering Russia's propaganda.

Okay fine it’s a scale. You got me, the US is morally superior to plenty of countries. It was hyperbolic to say it isn’t. But still, there is no such thing as good and evil here. Just different shades of evil.

> But still, there is no such thing as good and evil here.

You're trying very hard to insert the US into the discussion here while the focus should be on what Russia is doing to Ukraine, where there's very clearly a good vs evil thing going on.

Complaining about the evil that US has committed when discussing Russia's actions is only helping Russia's propaganda. Cut it out.

I'll be honest with you - it feels like the only reason why you brought up US here is to say those last two sentences.

Another reason I might bring up the US is because in certain contexts especially concerning geopolitics, references to Russia as “the bad guy” is used to justify all kinds of things. The same way Communism (I.e the USSR) was used as a boogeyman to justify US behavior in Vietnam (bombing civilians). Does that mean that I don’t support the US over Russia? Of course I do. I’m a citizen of the US. But I don’t like language like “the real bad guy”. It’s not whataboutism in that context.

I mean, I appreciate that you comment from your own perspective as a US citizen, but I think it's just jarring because

1) even the article didn't mention it, so it feels like a forced comment to say "well, there are only shades of grey".

2) folks who aren't US citizens don't vibe with your perspective the same way. As a Pole I see Russians as unequivcally "the bad guys" because they have done the exact same kind of thing to our country to Polish people in the past. The tales of Polish prisoners in Russian work camps are numerous and pretty much the same as this article describes.

That’s completely fair and I wasn’t trying to diminish the crimes of Russia. I shouldn’t have immediately gone to the secondary discussion about US foreign policy

Please don't whatabout in a thread clearly about two countries that are not the US. There are plenty of threads to go around about US imperialism that are a better place for your comment.

I have a strong suspicion the parent comment I was replying to was written by someone that thinks America has an infinite moral bank account can draw from to escape culpability for its actions. Maybe I misinterpreted that and if so you’re correct. But the way it was worded seemed pretty clear to me that the author sees the world like a Star Wars movie of good and evil. It’s not. In the real world the Jedi kill kids too.

>>was written by someone that thinks America

Dude, you're the only person here who mentioned America. Feels like you're projecting what you think other people think and reply to that, not to what they actually wrote.

That’s fair I think that might have happened in this case.

It’s necessary to whatabout when threads about Russia come up because there are usually plenty of top rated comments (see above) dehumanizing Russians and calling for their extermination. I have never seen any thread critical of US meddling in world affairs express the same hatred of US citizens and supporter's. “whataboutism” should not be used as defense against double standards. Double standards should be clearly called out.

I don't see any comments calling for the extermination of Russians. It sounds like you're making things up to support your own agenda.

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