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Comment by bilsbie | Hacker News Reader

I’d recommend doing a Tesla test drive. I did it for giggles and immediately bought one.

Im actually a big truck person but I put my identity on pause (so to speak) because I loved the car so much.

Everyone who knows me can’t seem to process that I don’t have a truck.

(Also the test drive was very low key. Schedule online, Just greet the guy, and he sends you off on your own for a drive. No pressure when you come back either.)

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I had one for a week while my car was in the shop. Can't say my experience was as positive as yours, but it gave me a newfound appreciation for my actual vehicle. The infotainment crashed twice and needed a hard reboot once. The latch got stuck during charging and I had to walk halfway across the lot to reset the unlatch procedure. The rear windscreen visibility went to 0 every time there was too much rain.

Silly question but if you're okay with the low ride height and small cargo capacity of a sedan, what is it you like about trucks?

Sometimes it's just a vibe - doesn't necessarily need to be practical.

I live in a rural area. It's 95% insecurity and 5% usefulness. Other countries workers can erect skyscrapers, build houses, and fix the heater just fine without these behemoths. Are American workers so much worse that they need all that extra space? The answer is no. It's about being a REAL man. Are you driving a reasonable car that gets good gas mileage? What are you, a pussy? These things aren't often said, but they are heavily implied. And I live in a relatively liberal rural area.

Sounds like confirmation bias. I see people pulling heavy trailers all the time. In fact, I don't think I actually know anyone with a large truck that doesn't haul at least sometimes.

I see people pulling trailers all time as well. It is still far less than 10% of the trucks I see on the road.

Well yeah they aren't pulling trailers to the grocery store. I'm not saying that nobody drives a truck just for vanity, but if you want to see people use trucks for their intended purpose, then you have to put yourself in a context where you'll actually be able to see that. Casual observation around town won't tell you whether someone periodically hauls a cargo trailer, boat, camper, farm equipment, or any number of other things.

The majority of people I know who daily drive trucks have never once pulled a trailer in their life. I get more usage from my tow hitch on a midsize SUV than most of those truck owners do. Hell I used the hitch on my Focus more than most truck owners I know.

Are you suggesting a high percentage of truck owners actually do tow? I'd be surprised if it was even as high as 50% of US truck owners have towed anything in the last 10 years.

Individual experiences may vary. I live in Northern Michigan where people are frequently towing things related to summer activities. If you live in a city or a rural community where people can't even afford to have things to tow, then you might not see it as much. People who work on farms or do construction may also use their trucks a lot but not necessarily a lot of heavy towing.

You seriously do think that most truck owners own boats or campers or bought them because they do construction or farm work or are just too poor to buy a boat at the moment huh?

Go walk around in Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Phoenix, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, St Lous, Denver, Kansas City, or loads of other cities like that. Prepare to have your eyes opened to excessive truck culture. Go see all the pavement princesses modified to excessive levels that make them impractical for towing or doing farm or construction work. Compare the trucks actually used for work compared to their pristine fancy paint jobs and spotless beds and geometry that would cause the suspension to snap if you tried pulling even a couple thousand pounds behind it.

According to some surveys something like 63% of truck drivers tow rarely to never.

https://www.axios.com/ford-pickup-trucks-history

Easily half of the trucks on the road today will never have towed anything in their lives. And chances are a lot will see payloads in their beds that would have comfortably fit in a minivan or hatchback.

I don't mind someone driving a big truck if its actually something they use as a truck. I'm contemplating getting a truck and camper trailer eventually myself. I get annoyed seeing all the wastefulness of all these trucks that aren't used as trucks. That wastefulness does affect me. It makes the air I breathe worse, it makes the streets my children play around less safe, it makes the parking situation worse, it makes traffic worse, it makes everything worse for zero damn reason other than "truck culture".

I grew up shoveling manure out of the back of a truck. It's called washing your car. Maybe someday we'll get a proper survey that doesn't mix infrequent use with never and learn something closer to the truth. I suspect usage is contextual in predictable ways.

I see many trucks like this drive around on the highways near me every night. Think they're shoveling manure out of something like this? Think they're towing much with a vehicle like that?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/27/b6/3d/27b63db4bd163bc3b1f4...

You know its a work truck when they have painted light-up rims.

https://live.staticflickr.com/1972/45705140252_d81ef13ce7.jp...

I'm sure that finance worker in Downtown Dallas going back to their quarter acre lot in Frisco sure shovels a ton of manure. I bet that software developer in Austin going back to his apartment spends a lot of time towing a horse trailer.

Seriously man. Leave the rural bubble for a bit and see what its like in a Southern US city. See all the trucks owned by people parking in cramped downtown parking garages. See all the office parking garages filled to the brim with excessive trucks. Then tell me they're mostly used by people working in trades with a straight face.

I feel like you are assuming too much about people and it seems obvious that you are exaggerating your experiences with the lifted truck thing, so I think we should just agree to disagree on the small differences in opinion we have. A SUV isn't much better for the environment and safety than a truck btw.

I feel like you haven't spent much time in a Southern city if you think trucks like the two example here are rare. I see them all the time. I'll see at least one every time I go out, normally I'll see multiple.

I feel you assume too much about truck owners and apply your experiences in rural Michigan to all other truck owners. You think people like my examples of Frisco office workers having trucks are rare? You ever spend time in Frisco TX? Think they're all farmers on their zero lot line McMansions? Yet somehow practically every home has a truck out front, often multiple. That's just one town in the metroplex. And that's just the metroplex. We haven't even begun talking about Houston or San Antonio or Austin or even left Texas.

Go take a look around Charles Schab's campus in Westlake. You'll find the parking there loaded with tons of big pickup trucks. How many farmers do you think Charles Schwab hires? Do the same with JPMorgan's new offices in Plano. I guess nearly a third of their workforce are farmers or plumbers or painters or something.

> A SUV isn't much better for the environment and safety than a truck btw.

Agreed. Which is why my midsize SUV stays in the driveway unless I actually need the space or towing while my family normally takes the much smaller other car that fits us just right. I fully agree people also often oversize their car purchase with massive SUVs that don't really do much more than what a midsize sedan could do with their usage.

Yeah, I haven't spent a ton of time in the deep South, so maybe you are right that the situation is worse than I realize. The local culture in Northern Michigan has some significant differences from other parts of America and it's possible I've forgotten some of the odd quirks of broader American culture since leaving Denver and Detroit. Good luck out there man.

And just understand, I'm not arguing every truck owner is some insecure person making up for it by buying a massively oversized truck. I definitely agree there's lots of people out there that do use their trucks as trucks, even if not all the time. I bet it does make sense to have a truck or at least a competent crossover in rural Michigan. Lots of people I know who live up there do need some clearance and get a lot of value out of all wheel drive.

But there are tons of people out there who are entirely office workers living in a suburban home or apartment who don't have boats or campers or whatever and own one or more trucks. Tons of them. You really notice the difference driving around in NY or Michigan or Illinois or whatever and then go to Texas or New Mexico or Georgia or similar. I just did a road trip from Texas to Montreal, so I got a decent snapshot of what highway populations look like across a lot of North America.

Agreed. Just visit your local truck stop, 24H diner, material/building supply store or cheap lunch spot at noon and you'll see plenty of big trucks, and guys who will probably be making a delivery later that day to your home.

What percentage of pickup truck drivers do you think actually frequent truck stops and 24hr diners? 90%? 50%? 10%?

How about all the spotless lifted pickup trucks in the parking garage in my suburban office parking garage owned by insurance salesmen and software developers? Think they go to truck stops and 24hr diners often? None of them are delivering anything to anyone's homes other than groceries from Whole Foods to their own suburban home.

Incredible to me so many people think the majority of truck owners work on a farm or a trade. Just look around. Take a peek in an office parking garage in Kansas City. Think all those people working in some healthcare insurance office are farmers or something?

Go someplace other than that 24hr diner or farmer supply store and notice all the trucks that obviously aren't work trucks.

> I live in a rural area. It's 95% insecurity and 5% usefulness.

Are you sure? Maybe you live in the south, which from my last visit was "lifted truck land"? I'm from a rural area that gets snow and I'd say the breakdown of insecurity vs usefulness is the exact opposite. No serious person lives in this area without a truck, or SUV capable of getting them around in the winter time and shlepping stuff to their home/farm/ranch (there's also a culture of self reliance). We also don't see lifted "shiny" trucks. Lifted? Sure. Shiny? That's for people "from away".

> I'm from a rural area that gets snow

Ah yes, because that's where 99% of truck owners in the US live.

Are you suggesting there's more truck owners in your rural area of Michigan than Dallas?

I live in Massachusetts. I literally live on a mountain. My 2007 Honda Fit with snow tires handles any blizzard just fine. No truck needed.

My problem with the "truck as a vibe" concept is that it's also "inconveniencing other people as a vibe" too. I don't mind work trucks, but the lifted, massive, shiny emotional support truck is:

  * Blocking other drivers' view
  * Has a deadly amount of kinetic energy
  * Takes up tremendous amount of parking space
  * Has an outsize environmental footprint

> "inconveniencing other people as a vibe"

which of course is exactly the point for some people. "rolling coal" is admired by a significant minority of the truck culture.

>* Has a deadly amount of kinetic energy

Agree overall but electric cars/trucks are super heavy.

Great question. It’s not that I’m ok with that stuff it’s just that I didn’t want the fun to stop after the test drive.

It turns out being excited about driving is worth a whole lot to me. (It used to feel like a chore)

Also with the model y, It doesn’t look that high but it rides high enough to not bother me. I can get into the seat instead of get down into the seat.

And the hatchback and fold flat seats give a bit more cargo room than a sedan.

You want driving excitement, try an old manual transmission roadster with your ass mere inches from the pavement. Now that is driving excitement. Every truck I've been in feels like a space capsule. And it's about as easy to park one as a literal space capsule. I have no idea why people like trucks.

I've been in a Tesla and it is rather sterile, but fine. I can't say much more about them, honestly. Having one would be fine.

Not addressing OP in particular, but in the South, a truck is a cultural thing more than a need anymore. If your great grandfather, grandfather, and father all drove a truck...then you get used to that being what a vehicle is supposed to be. It doesn't matter than your grandfather was a farmer and you now live in a suburb and write JavaScript from home. It doesn't matter that it costs a fortune and has terrible gas mileage. It's part of your identity. Source: lots of conversations with friends and neighbors with giant trucks that have no need.

That and they're heavily marketed towards their target demographic now instead of being meant for work. It's like a designer handbag for men, except that handbags actually appreciate in value.

It's frustrating as I wouldn't mind a small cheap truck. They don't like making that anymore though....mostly just $70k-$100k monstrosities. There are exceptions, but nothing like the Chevy S-10 or Ford Rangers of old. A modern Ford Ranger is the size of the old F-150s.

The first thing I did when I moved to Texas was finance a RAM 1500. It is difficult to understate just how deeply the pickup truck is embedded into the Texan ethos.

I loved the plush ride and miss the extra space (but not enough to get a Model Y). The seat height was nice, but I don't miss it. I definitely don't miss the super low end tech that most trucks come with. In retrospect, I feel bad about my carbon footprint. The truck chugged gas, which I spent roughly $200/mo on.

Like OP, I test drove a Model 3 via Turo completely on a whim (I wonder what Teslas are about...) and immediately financed one. I immediately financed the refreshed Model 3 when it released also. Absolutely incredible cars.

Same energy when I did a test drive for a Nissan Ariya. Was surprised (last time I test drove a car was 12 years ago when we bought our Sienna) - was a totally different experience.

We even took the car home and ensured it could park in our garage :)

truck is your identity?

truck yeah brother

At least he's honest about it.

I was exaggerating for effect but everyone who knows me actually seemed to think that. People can’t stop bringing it up. Kinda weird actually.

I guess the main truck things I liked:

I like feeling more like sitting in a regular chair. Low Cars feel like sleds to me.

I like the high ground clearance so I don’t worry about curbs and can park off-road if needed.

It’s nice to be able to throw things in the back. Kayaks, bikes, furniture.

They also hold their value really well.

And prior to 2020 trucks were pretty cheap compared to equivalent SUVS. I got a new 2017 tundra for around 30K.

Don’t know if you are an American, but it’s not unusual to see a scrotum decoration hanging from the tow hitch of a pickup. It’s absolutely an identity thing with some people.

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