Hacker News Reader

Comment by nico | Hacker News Reader

> Most who grew up to become geniuses, pre-1900, were kept apart from same age peers and raised at home, by tutors or parents

Pretty much all kids are a lot smarter than we acknowledge

Lazlo Polgar believed geniuses are made, not born, and raised his daughters to become chess grandmasters https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r

The school system is more of an industrial childcare operation for working parents, than an actual education system for the kids

It’s also easy to criticize, and it is very hard for parents to provide good resources and enough attention for the kids to fully develop their potential

View on HN

> The school system is more of an industrial childcare operation for working parents, than an actual education system for the kids

Bingo. And, as the spouse of a teacher, there's not a lot of hope of that changing any time soon. The pay would have to change... the people currently working would have to be dismissed or, for those introspective and motivated, retrained... never going to happen.

And generally focused on creating followers not thinkers. I really enjoyed "The Coddling of the American Mind"

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-cod...

https://www.thecoddling.com/

I agree that the school system is in need of help. And, there's the saying that it was intended to train workers for the machine, which is at least a minor upgrade from "industrial childcare".

But, then is it really that bad? I mean, as a nation, we've managed to make it quite a way and lead the world in many categories.

And, here we are on HN, cogently observing the issues from the "outside". Yet, I'd wager most of us are products of the public school system. How did so many manage to reach escape velocity?

Won't speak of others on HN, but for me, absolutely, 100%, succeeded _despite_ the public education system (as evidenced by ~99% of my peers not "making it" out from a dark place). And as someone self-medicating, and using their own money to seek psychologists, therapy, and help for the damage caused by it ~20 years later still, it is my value statement that it is absolutely 100% utterly, irredeemably horrible.

If people really cared about their children, the public education system, as a whole system, would be terminated.

They don't.

Or people had a different experience from yours. Is that really so unbelievable that it’s better to think everyone is as traumatized as you but they literally just don’t care about their children? Sorry but that’s completely absurd.

If a school has traumatized 99% of its students (or some co-hort within its student population), then there probably needs to be an investigation.

But, I don't think that's most people's experience.

Groups tend to see collective trauma as normal and (unsubconsciously) work to sustain it.

Part of this is touched on in "Coddling".

Each generation is getting a different (worse?) experience as they are maturing several years later than previous generations. It's not just "public school bad"... quiet a lot of factors in play, especially at the collegiate level.

But lots of people disagree with the article and the book. But I found it made compelling, accurate arguments.

I do agree about the maturation rate vs past times. But, I would chalk this up to a number of other factors which have changed and have had a more outsized impact than schools.

For one, parenting is far different, with parents now more integrally involved in their childrens' day to day lives. Kids are not encouraged to be independent, nor do they have as much opportunity to make decisions for themselves.

I would imagine "Coddling" speaks to that as well. But, that really has very little to do with schools.

> is it really that bad?

You must have spent at least some time in school. You will have experienced exactly how bad it is - it's not a space for thinking, it is a space for shutting up and conforming.

You imply "many" manage to reach escape velocity. The GP's point is the opposite: Most do not, and this is the tragedy.

I largely agree that independent thinking isn't a priority, but there was TAG (which admittedly emphasized skills that all kids should've been taught), and the occasional outstanding teacher.

I do believe that critical-thinking is the single-most impactful untaught skill in public schools. It's a gateway to so much more, including an autodidactic lifestyle. It's honestly mind-boggling that logic and critical-thinking aren't a recurring theme.

Still, our schools produce a lot of amazing students who go on to make hugely impactful contributions.

Sure, it needs improvement. But I think the degree of dysfunction is overstated.

Easy evidence is how they enter school loving books and leave school dreading books most of the time. Another point is how school times start just before work hours for parents. Finally, they pump the kids full of high sugar substances which actually damage cognitive functions over time. Thankfully, minimally incentivized people are there to keep them inline.../s

Yeah, it was clear they were training us for an industrial work ethic with 40 minute periods with bells moving us from place to place, regimented bathroom and recreational activity, and generally a complete disinterest in learning, just do the homework kid, we don't care and we wont call on you.

Norbert Weiner was explicitly raised by his father to be a prodigy as well:

https://www.amazon.com/Norbert-Wiener_A-Life-Cybernetics-Mat...

My early childhood is very similar to that of some Field medalists.. and then I went to school and the problems began.. between bullying, isolation, and a host of other issues, adult me feels the burden of "potential".

I don't blame my parents for it, they really didn't have much of a choice in the matter as we were too poor for private schools and homeschooling isn't a thing where I come from.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com