Comment by zarathustreal | Hacker News Reader

Comment by zarathustreal | Hacker News Reader

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As a matter of fact _module_ is a pure theoretical concept. The fact that we’re discussing at least two different implementations of modules alone proves that it’s at least more abstract than _file_. It’s certainly not strictly related to Node, plenty of languages (and their associated runtimes, if applicable) have modules. Further, it wouldn’t matter what a specific implementation of modules within Node is, nor would 14 years of experience with Node.

You’re missing the point entirely, perhaps intentionally? If you’re using modules you’re already using a “build step” - code that runs before your actual code. Your “perfectly working paradigm” is only such if you intentionally disregard the core reason for modules: modularity.

Your point is that modules has a conceptual underpinning. My point is that the actual world in not the same as that concept.

I use modules for all the reasons. Your assertion that require() or importSync() represents a willful misunderstanding is silly and arrogant.

My assertion is that, having been made aware of the pitfalls of effectful imports, continuing to argue for using them requires a willful misunderstanding.

People outside the context of this discussion could simply be uninformed, they don’t need to be willfully misunderstanding.

No. It is a result of a practical, engineering perspective. I love theory. It's necessary for moving the world forward.

I also love getting things to work. Three quarters of NPM packages are CJS. Several of them are ones I wrote.

The reason they are not ESM is that the theoretically pure folks had control and I voted with my fingers because everything I do has to fit in my a substantial amount of existing CJS code.

Arguing for practical solutions that accommodate an imperfect world is absolutely correct.

> code that runs before your actual code But this is not a build step. A build step would transform the code beforehand

For good measure, it is an operation that executes by the runtime for every execution, not as a redeployment.

Turns out that the ESM purists struggle to find reasons to condemn those of us who don’t have the need or resources to the chase bleeding edge of purity.

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