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Comment by shrubble | Hacker News Reader

So Westinghouse sold the Chinese 4x AP1000, knowing full well that the Chinese would learn, document and then copy/clone the designs all over. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP1000

Which is exactly what happened; with the follow-on that any improvements are patented and the patent rights are owned solely by the Chinese:

"In 2008 and 2009, Westinghouse made agreements to work with the Chinese State Nuclear Power Technology Corporation (SNPTC) and other institutes to develop a larger design, the CAP1400 of 1,400 MWe capacity, possibly followed by a 1,700 MWe design. China will own the patent rights for these larger designs. Exporting the new larger units may be possible with Westinghouse's cooperation."

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> Westinghouse sold the Chinese 4x AP1000

https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/country-profil...

> Westinghouse has agreed to transfer technology to SNPTC over the first four AP1000 units so that SNPTC can build the following ones on its own.

So it seems a bit unfair to say the Chinese somehow reversed engineered the AP1000 design.

This also happened when Combustion Engineering sold the System 80+ design (a derivative of that deployed at Palo Verde) to South Korea. Apparently Combustion Engineering were in financial trouble and did what was necessary to get the deal, although Westinghouse (who eventually came to own the Combustion Engineering intellectual property) are currently disputing this deal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPR-1000

Better the Chinese actually use the tech than it sets in regulatory deadlock in the US.

Sad to see the US lose freedoms just as rapidly as a Chinese citizens. One one case, onerous regulation and on the other a decrease of personal freedom but the overall result is surprisingly similar.

This seems like a great thing for the environment (geopolitics aside)

Agreed, this seems like a positive outcome for everyone except maybe the private equity people who own Westinghouse.

Yes, it's not like China doesn't already have weapons. The more we can do to help them cut carbon emissions the better.

If only we did what they're doing to cut emissions. They put up more solar every quarter than the rest of the world does every year.

They have also brought a lot of new coal power plants online in the past few decades. I'm not sure if they still are, or have shut any of that down.

Building new coal plants is bad, but it could be worse in that they seem to be running those plants less often and using them as peakers rather than baseload: https://www.sustainabilitybynumbers.com/p/china-coal-plants

Theyve lifted a billion people out of poverty in the last 80 years. You need energy to do that

But how is the poor Westinghouse megacorp going to make more money if we're just benefitting humanity for free?!

Civil nuclear power is dead in the west. What value does IP that will never be used have? Why not give it to the chinese and see what they can come up with?

> Which is exactly what happened

The other side of that coin was Westinghouse realising there is no market for civil nuclear power in North America or Europe at this time on account of the newfound alliance between wind and gas.

Where can I learn about the alliance between wind and gas?

It's not a conspiracy, it's just an observation that the two technologies play well together. Also, natural gas is very cheap in the US. This latter fact rather than nefarious conspiracies or regulatory evil is why the "nuclear renaissance" collapsed here when the fracking revolution occurred. An efficient combined cycle gas fired power plant might cost $1/W(e), an order of magnitude lower capital cost than a nuclear plant. If the fuel for such a plant is cheap then nuclear is presented with an insuperable economic obstacle.

Combustion turbines are amazing technological achievements. It's ironic that one technology with military roots, nuclear fission, has been unseated by another technology with military roots, combustion turbines by way of jet engines.

I wonder if the Chinese regret sharing gunpowder with the west, what do you think?

The formula is not thought to have been shared, like the plans to the nuclear reactors were shared. Knowledge of gunpowder is thought to have likely been inadvertently transferred through trade along the silk road, by way of the Middle East, where the knowledge of gunpowder was acquired before Europe.

There's also the story of china.

(in this case, I mean porcelain)

Any war technogy is shared in the end. By conquest ot copy, its inevitable.

or paper for that matter

Well, history repeats itself [1].

[1] https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88...

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