Comment by ProfessorLayton | Hacker News Reader

Comment by ProfessorLayton | Hacker News Reader

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ProfessorLayton

While I too miss exotic hardware (N64 being my all-time favorite), ultimately what people want to play is great games and the hardware is just a means to an end.

The bigger issue with current consoles imo, specifically the PS5 and XB, is their input homogenization and stagnation. Consoles have historically been forward-looking via their controllers to enable new ways to play games:

[NOT including optional accessories, only out of the box abilities]

- N64: Analog controls, 4 controller ports, controller expansion ports

- PS1: Dual analog controls

- PS2: Pressure-sensitive buttons, built-in rumble

- Dreamcast: ...

- Xbox: ...

- Gamecube: ...

- Wii: Motion controls

- PS3: ...

- Wii U: Gamepad screen

- 360: ...

- PS4: [Correction!] Touchpad

- Switch: Detachable and sharable controllers

- XB1: Kinnect

- PS5: ...

- XB1X: ...

I'm definitely not implying that every new input type was successful (See Wii U, kinnect), but consoles up until about PS3/360 had something new to offer regarding ways to experience games. This has all but stopped, with Nintendo being the only one to consistently introduce new ways to play that cannot easily be replicated on a PC. Plugging a PS5/Xbox controller into a PC yields the same or better experience as buying a dedicated console these days, so why buy the console at all?

why buy the console at all?

Putting console exclusives aside, I can build a PC that does everything I need it to do but play some new games + a console for less than it costs to build & maintain a "gaming rig". Also, my PS4 is still working after ~10yrs. I would have to upgrade my PC more frequently than that to keep up with new games.

You're also forgetting the two-point capacitive touch pad on the PS4 controller. It's OK, almost all the video game developers did too.

>It's OK, almost all the video game developers did too.

Haha, good catch, corrected!

> why buy the console at all?

It’s easier. I don’t have to fiddle with drivers. Or settings. Or choosing which card to upgrade to when. Or debugging mismatches. I don’t have to have the OS + Steam/Epic/whatever + games.

The games are written to what I have and I don’t need to worry about it. The OS is completely built around playing games and making it easy for me to acquire them and I don’t have to think about any of it.

I had the years of building gaming PCs and messing with all of that and doing all the research. And I had fun. And at this point in my life I just don’t wanna deal with it I just wanna play a nice game.

While I agree with you, I think that we have reached a local optimum that is difficult to improve anymore. I mean, what else is missing from modern controllers? Unless we move to VR with direct neural control, I don't see a way forward.

PS5 controller replaced rumble with fancy haptics and force feedback on the triggers

The force feedback in the triggers was indeed new, but the "haptics" (I think it's basically a low frequency loudspeaker) were already present in the Switch controllers, and before that in iPhones under the name "Taptic engine". Unfortunately the Xbox controller still lacks these "haptics", as well as gyroscope and accelerometer, any force feedback etc.

I thought about that, but at its core the PS5 triggers are just another form of feedback akin to the rumble, and didn't really introduce new types of gameplay.

Fancy haptics were introduced by the Switch.

While the switch had higher resolution haptics, the PS5 is another advance past that. They do not feel the same.

I'm not saying they feel exactly the same, but pointing out the fact that no new gameplay experiences are unlocked by said advancement. This is evidenced by the fact that games are ported between the PS5 and Xbox 1X with little to no gameplay changes between the two, the feel of triggers and rumble aside.

Before haptics became standard, game designers could not base any significant gameplay experiences on the presence of haptics. Early games like Ocarina of Time had neat optional side quests enabled by haptics, but in no way required because they couldn't rely on all customers buying an optional accessory.

The presence of the Switch's HD Rumble (And novel controllers in general) enabled new types of play on games like 1-2-Switch, and Nintendo's Labo series that use the rumble to control cardboard toys' movement.

The same cannot be said for the PS5's more refined rumble or triggers.

Part of the problem is that since they’re only available on the PS5 only exclusive games tend to get real work put into it, if at all.

I do like the way they feel and I think they add to immersion. But honestly I’m not sure you can really enable new kinds of play with any kind of rumble past a basic hot/cold system of how strong it’s running.

While the switch is capable of something more is it really used anywhere besides those two games? A big part of the problem is I’m not sure you can feel it very well unless the joycons are detached. If you keep them attached to the system or use a different controller than you seem to lose the benefit.

>Part of the problem is that since they’re only available on the PS5 only exclusive games tend to get real work put into it, if at all.

This is what GP was arguing about regarding lazy ports on current hardware.

>While the switch is capable of something more is it really used anywhere besides those two games?

The success of the feature is kind of orthogonal to its inclusion into the console though, since console makers won't know how successful it'll be until it's developed and released. I agree with you that it didn't really take off, but that's true of other things like button pressure sensitivity, or Kinnect-style controls.

I'd also argue that HD rumble is but a small portion of a much larger and game-impacting package that is the Switch controller, while the PS5 controller is a refinement of the same controller they've had for decades now.

Playstation and Xbox have seemingly abandoned novel hardware that enables new gameplay experiences.

DC had Visual Memory(programmable tamagocchi as memory card) and modem, 360 had near gold standard ergonomic gamepad(also first USB in console)

The VRU was a separately sold accessory and not an out of the box capability devs could depend on. The 360 had an ergonomic controller, yes, but didn't offer gameplay experiences other contemporaries couldn't offer.

DC snd PS had no save function if that logic was followed, there was no dumb memory option for DC at launch.

The list was specific to controller input innovations, and not console capabilities as a whole, so memory cards fall outside of that.

The Dreamcast VMU ate multiple CR2032 batteries for lunch, and not everyone bought their console at launch. There were plenty of dumb memory options throughout its lifespan.

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