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Comment by CuriouslyC | Hacker News Reader

From personal experience, I can tell you 5-meo-dmt is mostly worse for most people than DMT. It's darker, more nausea inducing (normally the caapi in ayahuasca is the thing that makes you sick, not really the DMT), the body load is higher and it's just a more stressful experience all around than DMT.

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The experience is highly dependent on dosage (it's harder to fight the big dose) and on how willing you are to let go (of everything- all your storylines, loved ones, your life itself). The freakouts and struggles you see on youtube happen when one can't fully give in to it. IME, after the (very intense) come up, it is pure love and bliss. Going all the way feels like dissolving into god, and coming back you feel indescribably light and reborn. It's quite literally an ineffable experience at points, as if it turns off your mind (ego death/dissolution?) and you experience life temporarily from the heart with a completely non-dual view. (YMMV, I love the stuff but I also have a bit of experience in these more intense states; I work at a traditional ayahuasca healing center and usually drink 4 times a week). It's definitely not a recreational substance.

I should qualify, I've been a practitioner for quite a while now, so I've crossed over many times. Above ego dissolution threshold, a lot of stuff feels pretty similar, but each molecule definitely has its own character.

My personal preference is a mixture of caapi paste and a citrus juice extraction of p. cubensis and dried kratom leaf. The progression is quite fast and it can be incredibly intense but the body load and nausea are much reduced.

Where is this center located? Near Iquitos by any chance? And in that case, do you have Starlink, and if so, what speeds do you get?

We're actually located in southern Mexico, a couple hours from Belize (our maestros dieted and trained with a maestro near Iquitos, and operate in that lineage). But we do have starlink here and it's miles better than what we previously had. I don't have numbers handy, it does vary a bit throughout the day (but is very reliable nonetheless).

4 times per week? That's insane, how do you cope with that? Is it always equally pleasant?

It's definitely not for everyone haha. You get a rhythm with it, take lots of naps etc. The medicine does give you some energy to do the work, and you generally feel good from the vine. We take a couple months off a year and don't usually drink during those breaks. It's hardest when we ourselves are also doing master plant diets (even more restrictive than the usual "ayahuasca diet", no salt/oil/etc).

Always equally pleasant? No of course not. Some nights it's unbelievable and profound. The "hard" nights are still good as we're still learning to clean the things causing it. It's rarely mundane and (through the tradition we practice) there's always something to do, in ourselves or for our guests.

Last time I drank ayahuasca with huambisa/chaliponga (contains 5-meo-dmt) I vomited every 5-10 minutes for about 4 hours. It was horrible, and I had to ask for help because I couldn't even get up and refill my water bottle. Chacruna is more gentle and smooth.

Drink pomegranate juice and eat some ginger 20 minutes before. That stops any nausea with Ayahuasca for 6-8 hours, it evens "fix" the horrible taste to many.

I think it’d be counterproductive to stop the nausea, when nausea is an integral part of the Ayahuasca process of letting go, in addition to crying, yawning, sweating, etc. I just listen to my body and let it do its thing; sometimes I need to purge, sometimes I don’t need to purge.

The purge isn't necessary for healing, shamans use your physical purging as an anchor to help you emotionally purge, but that's just another technique.

It stops the nausea, but you still can purge (can't tell why). But it feels that you are just cleaning your body. And without nausea you can listen, IMHO, to your body, more carefully

I never imagined being able to vomit without the nausea, so that’s pretty interesting hah

YMMV, but for several friends and me, the urge comes all at once and the purge happens. It's like an "immediate" nausea.

Was the 5-MEO from the plants or toad? I heard that the toad one is much lighter than the plant one

I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do.. but these toads (like the Sonoran desert toad) are increasingly becoming endangered due to poaching. It is possible to milk the venom without harming them, but a lot of poachers aren't careful or use the wrong techniques.

I also understand people believe that there is a qualitative difference between the venom and synthetic, but it's the same compound at the end of the day.

I've had both chaliponga and lab 5-meo. I find oral lab 5-meo unpleasant, but chaliponga does have some other impurities that amplify the problem. I think smoking 5-meo makes a lot of the side effects less noticeable compared with regular DMT, but it still has this more dark, muddy, wild feeling and a weight, whereas I find regular DMT to be clear and light by comparison.

yikes, my DMT experiences were dark enough already, thank you

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