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Comment by Spooky23 | Hacker News Reader

RealID requires a social security card and is mostly about making it difficult for poor people to vote.

Data exchange between DMVs or for other non-law enforcement purposes is coordinated through AAMVA. You can see what states exchange data here: (https://www.aamva.org/it-systems-participation-map). There are loopholes that people exploit - for example NJ registered trucks won't be subject to registration action in NY... so you can accumulate lots of tickets in NYC with no consequence.

Some Canadian provinces exchange data between individual states as well.

A system called Nlets connects every jurisdiction for law enforcement purposes.

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In California, you need social security (number only, not card), only if you are eligible for one, or has one. If you are on a non immigrant non work visa, and thus are not eligible to work/ssn, you still can get REAL ID.

Not every REAL ID holder is a citizen & thus eligible to vote. Real ID needs only proof of legal status (citizen, permanent resident, tourist, work permit, study vis etc) and address.

Thank you for clarifying a corner case.

A US citizen requires proof of SSN, either a social security card or W2. This is a heavy burden for many people.

> A US citizen requires proof of SSN, either a social security card or W2

That is incorrect. For example, see California's REAL ID checklist[0]. I got my REAL ID in CA by presenting my birth certificate and two forms of address verification.

It's possible that some states require proof of SSN, but that does not appear to be an absolute requirement for the feds to sign off on the state's process.

[0] https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification...

You are welcome.

This is not a corner case (SSN required, not card). I would say its more like 90%. Since 2021 nobody needs proof of SSN, they just need the SSN number itself.

To quote CA DMV website:

> Applying for a REAL ID requires proof of identity, proof of California residency, and a trip to DMV. You will be asked to provide your Social Security number on your REAL ID application (exceptions may apply).

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification....

I just got a RealID myself a couple weeks ago. I did not have to prove anything about my SSN. I gave them a copy of my birth certificate, my old driver's license, and a piece of mail delivered to me at my home address. That's all.

The only thing on that list that takes any effort to get is the birth certificate. And everyone really ought to keep a copy of their own anyway. Even before RealID we used birth certificates for ID at the DMV, so it is not a new requirement (for Oregon at least).

Why it is a heavy burden for a citizen?

(I'm not an US citizen, but even I have SSN).

Proof of SSN might be difficult for some people. I know lots of people who have lost their Social Security Card, or at least have no idea where it is.

(Regardless, the GP is incorrect; proof of SSN is not a REAL ID requirement, at least not in every state. If a state requires proof of SSN, they're going above and beyond what the feds require.)

This stuff is ridiculous to me. Unless you are an unlawful immigrant from a war-torn country, you certainly are registered somewhere that can prove your identity.

If I lose every single ID and show up at my birth town city hall with my full name and birth date, I am certain they will be able to identify me and produce a valid document via cross checks.

Why is it so hard for Americans to have an ID?

Yes, it is ridiculous. I’ve done alot of work in this space.

The issue is that it’s a rare issue where left and right wing extremists agree that they don’t like ID. Also, vital records are decentralized - 12,000 entities issue birth certificates with varying standards of competence. States like New York have centralized, well maintained registries. Other places adopt a hold my beer approach.

On the right:

Religious fanatics think it’s the mark of the beast. Anti-tax types worry that it will make it harder to evade taxes through shell companies and other entities. Libertarians think it’s a gateway for more intrusive regulation and loss of freedom.

On the left:

Advocates believe that the administrative burden and difficulty of getting documentation will marginalize the elderly, poor, children with complex family dynamics and the homeless. Voting rights advocates are worried about voter id laws and regulations that disenfranchise voters who are transient, have difficulty getting or maintaining the ID, etc.

Things that are trivial for middle class folks are often very challenging for people outside of that norm. Think about how difficult it would be to exist as a traveller in NYC without a smartphone. One of the great challenges of government service delivery is to move the needle without marginalizing thousands of people.

Verification is a requirement.

Some states, like California, electronically validate. Other states, for example Alabama, do paper verification which involves collecting identity proofs and either a social security card or a W2.

OP is wrong. Only the number is required, not proof. OP was right in 2018.

RealID is about biometeric collection. The requirement date keeps moving because if it is not required, but seems like it will be soon, then more people will consent voluntarily.

> RealID requires a social security card and is mostly about making it difficult for poor people to vote.

Bruh. If you don't have a social security number, you can't even work legally. Also, 99% of people born in the US[0] get them at birth.

What are you talking about?

[0] I on the other hand, didn't get one until I was about 8 years old, because my parents wanted to hide me from the draft, but that's now the draft works, and you need a social security number for all sorts of stuff now, like tax deductions.

There’s a difference between having a social security number and a social security card.

You need a number to work. You need the card for real id. Replacement of a lost card is onerous. For a minor, incredibly onerous - you need a healthcare provider to sign a statement identifying the minor. (Good luck with that)

I got a real id compliant drivers license last year and didn’t need my SS card.

Maybe you are not in the target demography for this particular enforcement bias if the agenda mentioned by the person bringing up the theory is legit.

No, the person bringing it up is just wrong. Some states may require proof of SSN in order to get a REAL ID, but many (such as California) do not, and as such, that means the federal requirements that the states have to comply with in order to issue REAL IDs does not require proof of SSN.

They require verification, and states have the ability to choose how they do so.

You're just making things up. Nothing you've said is true.

> Replacement of a lost card is onerous. For a minor, incredibly onerous - you need a healthcare provider to sign a statement identifying the minor. (Good luck with that)

Huh?

All you need for a child of yours under 12 is:

1. Birth certificate for child

2. Proof that you are a parent (usually #1 plus a government issued ID covers this; an adoption order may be needed if you aren't on the birth certificate)

3. Proof that the child was alive recently. Either medical or school records will cover this; it needs to have parent and child's name on it.

If the child over 12, you need the above, plus the child must present themselves at an office, preferrably with a photo ID (it need not be government issued; e.g. a school ID is fine). If your child doesn't have a photo ID, the individual officer may be a bit persnickety in this case, so having both medical and school records are good, though may not be required.

As an aside, if the child has a passport (possibly even a recently expired one) you're basically good to go, since it establishes both identity and citizenship.

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