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Comment by dr__mario | Hacker News Reader

Can you define that "middle-class", please? If you live purely from housing, you are not middle-class.

In the Mediterranean like in any resort area a lot of people live from housing, which requires not only owning, but also keeping it attractive, complying with local regulations, looks and the culture. It's nothing like rental company in NYC owning a garage full of rats, and charging a arm and a leg.

Middle class is a family from Zaragoza having a vacation house in Maresme or some extra property in Alicante which were sold for like 20-30K a few years ago, and then occupied, which took them a few months to evict.

The collaboration between scary deoccupying folks and okupas should be common, even if hard to prove, and it's mostly directed on people like this. Many people don't go to police and prefer to pay off just not to see their property ruined.

Not arguing that owning property in a tourist area requires work (unless you're paying a property manager to do it for you), but I could never imagine owning a vacation property to be squarely middle class. Upper-middle class, at the very least.

Building a small house or cabin in the woods with the help of friends and family is an upper-middle class thing for you, really?

That is absolutely not the same thing as GP is mentioning and you know it.

>Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

All I know is a lot of people owning property here and there without being some upper middle class. You don't seem to understand that a lot of people even if they have low income have the desire and time and are hard working to slowly build something, which in 30 years of time becomes what you call a vacation home. I guess you are not used to manual work and think is impossible to do large things by yourself.

Land is pretty expensive in Spain.

Depends where and when and how you acquire it.

That can be said for every single purchasable thing in the world.

small cabin in the woods is whatever

renting out property you own as a means of income is the upper middle class part.

I know a lot of people who inherited some small place from a relative and they rent it out to supplement their income and aren't anywhere near upper middle class. What is you definition of upper middle class?

I don't believe "middle class" is anything but a psychological game.

You either have to sell your labour to someone else or you don't.

The concept of a "middle class" seems to just make half of the working class think they're better than the other half.

> If you live purely from housing, you are not middle-class.

Someone could be a landlord and only be taking home like $50k per year as "salary". You're saying that person is not middle-class?

For context a very senior developer only makes 60k a year in Spain.

What makes you think that the problem concerns mainly - let alone only - people who live purely from housing?

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