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Comment by carom | Hacker News Reader

A way less marketed version of this is htmx [1]. It is a single javascript file that enables this functionality. I mostly see people using it with Go backends but I think it is flexible. I have been meaning to try it out for a year or so.

1. https://htmx.org/

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At least as far as Hacker News is concerned, I'd call htmx way more marketed. It has hundreds of HN submissions in the past year alone [0] including one that broke 1000 points. Compare that to Hotwire which is sitting at less than 30 submissions in the past year [1], the most popular of which is this one.

[0] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&prefix=true&query...

[1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&prefix=true&query...

I guess it is that HTMX just feels like one guy's side project. Granted he is great at posting. TFA feels like 37 Signals took the same idea and is trying really hard to sell it.

Live views in Phoenix were way before both.

But not before Intercooler.js (the predecessor to HTMX) or Turbolinks (the predecessor to Hotwire). This is an idea that has been developing for as long as the web itself, I don't think it's important to assign inventorship of the concept as a whole to any one project. They've all been learning from each other and innovating in their own ways.

Meteor, Ember, Derby were the "next big thing" 10 years ago.

Principles of Rich Web Applications (rauchg.com) Nov 4, 2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8559519

https://www.infoworld.com/article/2612250/application-develo...

https://shiggyenterprises.wordpress.com/2013/03/11/picking-a...

https://blog.emberjs.com/inside-fastboot-the-road-to-server-...

It's not just that the idea has been developed over and over, but it is constantly hyped as a return to the golden past, and yet never gets the love that new client side spa messes end up attracting.

Pjax, 2011. We can probably keep going back further. No-one has a monopoly on this idea.

htmx was a mashup of $.load(), pjax and angular 1 style attributes (very different conceptual model but I saw how angular used custom attributes and thought that looked better than the JavaScript api I had cooked up)

later on I figured out that what I was doing was generalizing hypermedia controls, but that took me years to figure out.

why does this matter ?

Turbo is more or less a continuation of Turbolinks, which has been around for ages. The Turbo repo goes back to 2015 (htmx starts in 2020), but Turbolinks is many years older. Of course there have been other "htmx-like" frameworks before; who even knows who or what was first at this point?

I don't think "feels like 37 Signals took the same idea and is trying really hard to sell it" is very fair (I've never seen them try to "sell it" at all, much less "very hard"). Regardless, you're allowed to "steal" ideas.

His mastery of millennial style memes is so rich. You can tell he just believes he is right and everyone else is dumb but he’s just “in it for the lols”.

I definitely don’t think everyone else is dumb, or that htmx is right for everything, or particularly novel.

I do enjoy the lols I will admit that, hopefully as much at my own expense as anyone

A bit presumptuous of me. Maybe it's just me that thinks you're smarter than everyone else.

I don't know _htmx personally, but I think he's more than willing to poke fun at those heavily invested in technology that is overkill for their needs. He most definitely is poking fun and laughing at the current mindset of javascript culture.

What’s TFA?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19781756

A good thread for understanding the different ways people think of it. I always go with @speg's interpretation, because the pejorative meaning just isn't used that frequently on HN:

> I tend to rethink of it as "the featured article".

The fucking article

This is how I've always understood it.

Not pejorative btw - just a phrase to refer to the current article.

In fairness to the commenter, I don’t know either of the projects but htmx’s _page_ is way less marketing focused that hotwire’s page. The hotwire page’s marketing is crazy: ‘turbo’, ‘stimulus’, ‘strada’… Crazy but yet commendable.

Aren’t those just product names? They don’t strike me as crazy.

Hotwire and htmx both look like good products to me.

Yes, they are. And the product names are an artefact of the marketing effort. By ‘crazy’ I mean ‘crazy good / near over the top’ effort marketing.

Agree they both look good products. But put the websites side by side and ask what page has had more marketing effort put into it and I’ll think you’ll see the commenter point.

I'm curious as to what people think is the appropriate amount of time to wait before reposting the same story.

I know people complain about any and all reposts in the first place (https://xkcd.com/1053), but obviously there should be a priority on teaching people things they didn't already know instead of punishing people that never read old news.

You may have noted this from my links, but just in case—when I say the htmx has a lot of submissions I'm not referring to duplicate submissions, I'm referring to dozens of different submissions of different projects using or adjacent to htmx.

Re: the meta question, dang's policy that he repeats a lot is that reposts are fine every year or so [0]. Individuals may obviously disagree, but that's the rule that's actually enforced.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40523838

Personally I also find value in those posts even if knew about those technologies before. I often find interesting and up-to-date information or opinions in the comments.

> A way less marketed version of this is htmx

Can I come live in whatever bizarro world you're in? I've never heard of Hotwire before but I'm up to my ears with htmx this and htmx that. It's impossible to spend a minute on Youtube without seeing programmer influencers with their moronic thumbnails featuring their face twerks next to htmx.

Also worth mentioning https://unpoly.com which packs other features.

The last commit on Github was 2 days ago so I think it's safe to say this is a dead project.

Quite complex though.

HTMX probably has the best marketing of any framework. The twitter is very active, it's all over The Primeageon's youtube channel. It's quite popular.

Less marketed? I’m flooded with htmx on every social platform.

Grassroots evangelism != marketing

I researched it yesterday and there are differences, htmx is a lot lower level, hotwire cover only some narrow usecases but from a high level, and finally unpoly is highlevel with a lot of usecases coverage

the Django community is pretty vocal about htmx too (in a good way)

It’s pretty marketed though. That’s why it has become more popular than Unpoly, which has been around for longer, was not rewritten 10 times, and has a lot more useful features.

Can you post links to some interesting go/htmx projects, please?

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