Comment by godelski | Hacker News Reader

Comment by godelski | Hacker News Reader

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> In general I’m struck at how many people’s sense or “right” leans so hard on what’s available for sale.

I'm mostly confused how it seems there's pretty significant evidence that helicopter parenting[0] has resulted in poor outcomes for kids[1] but then we act as if the reason it fails is because we aren't paying __enough__ attention.

I am sympathetic to parents wanting to protect their kids, but if the objective is to turn children into adults that are independent and self-sufficient, then a parent also needs to learn to trust their kids (at different levels of course. Clearly there's a balance).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicopter_parent

[1] To be clear, this metastudy concludes that there is insufficient statistical power due to scale, the evidence is in the direction of causing harm and of course, there is reason to believe this is a reasonable outcome. It's worth noting the part that says

  Overprotective parenting and anxiety: No studies found reduced anxiety following overprotective parenting

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9176408/

I object to the idea that putting a smartwatch on your child is helicopter parenting. It can be exactly the opposite - if a little piece of technology allows kids to roam farther unsupervised, then it fosters independence.

I have never been accused of overparenting, yet I preordered one of these google watches. I expect to use it on outings like amusement parks and ski trips. We'll see how it goes.

It's not the opposite because they can just roam further unsupervised already. That truly fosters independence. If they need help they can call for help. Saying that left is right and right is left is a bit strange.

> if a little piece of technology allows kids to roam farther unsupervised

I think we have a different definition of 'unsupervised'; I understand it to mean "no supervision/oversight" where I guess you mean "out of sight"?

Similarly, I'm not sure what you mean by "overparenting", and even if I did I don't know your situation so I wouldn't feel comfortable charging you with it. That said, if I were to put such a device on my kid I'd feel I was doing something wrong.

We already use air tags for those outings, and they work really well. Maybe when he is going more out in his own will we consider a true smart watch so he can really roam, but he is still only 7, and we are still more worried about busy traffic on the street than him getting lost.

Yeah, our friends use airtags skiing and that would probably meet our needs. However we're in the Android ecosystem and there isn't really an airtag equivalent.

Google is starting to roll out a Find My Device network, but it's been delayed so the trackers are just now shipping and there aren't yet reviews out on how good they are.

Samsung does have a comparable line of devices, but yeah, it's Samsung only.

AirTags have a huge network advantages in that a lot of people have iPhones. It’s not what you have, but what everyone else has that is important when finding things. That Google hasn’t bothered to compete, or the antitrust authorities haven’t out yet, is a complete mystery to me. Airtags alone have me firmly locked into owning an iPhone.

Google and partners are rolling out their own network now: https://9to5google.com/2023/05/10/android-find-my-device-tra...

Right! I got the prompt to enable it a few days ago on my phone. :)

Also, the Samsung network of devices is quite comparable to Apple's, apparently a lot of people own Samsung phones, TV sets or other devices. So if you have a Samsung phone, give their tags a try, it's definitely a lot cheaper than switching everything to Apple.

> I object to the idea that putting a smartwatch on your child is helicopter parenting

> allows kids to roam farther unsupervised, then it fosters independence.

I think you understand then. It depends how the devices are used, obviously. I think no one is really objecting to the utility of being able to use such a device when there is a serious situation, but rather that the reality is that a very large number of parents use these types of devices to constantly surveil their children. There's a difference.

> I have never been accused of overparenting

I'm not accusing you of being one. In context this would depend on your actions and no one can realistically judge that without actually knowing you. But there is a clear general trend. No one knows if you're part of that, so don't be quick to assume you're being singled out.

And of course, I wouldn't use the "no one has accused me of" as a meaningful metric. People might not tell you (I mean every parent knows how common other parents gossip, right?), you might not hear, or it is quite common for these types of things to foster echo chambers as similar parenting styles naturally gravitate towards one another. But of course, no one is accusing you of anything, because this __cannot__ be known without significantly more information. This paragraph was only mentioned because it appears you feel like people are calling you out, so it notes a possibility of how the observations can be in perfect harmony.

> I think no one is really objecting to the utility of being able to use such a device when there is a serious situation, but rather that the reality is that a very large number of parents use these types of devices to constantly surveil their children. There's a difference.

The problem is that, from the child's perspective, there is no difference. The parent can -- genuinely and sincerely -- tell the child that they'll only use the tracking in an emergency, but the child still knows that ever-present tracking means they don't have the freedom to be where they want to be, absent their parents' knowledge and permission.

I was a relatively "good kid" growing up, and mostly did what my parents told me to do, and mostly asked permission for the things I wanted to do that (from my parents' perspective) required permission. But sometimes I did my own thing, went where I wanted, and didn't ask permission. And my parents would have punished me had they found out. I wouldn't want to grow up in a society where I would be too afraid to do those things, because my parents had the capability to track my every movement.

I agree with this but wondering if you intended to reply to someone else

>> I have never been accused of overparenting

Just FYI, this expression is a form of stylized understatement and not meant to be taken literally.

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