Comment by sillysaurusx | Hacker News Reader

Comment by sillysaurusx | Hacker News Reader

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Ignore them and record anyway. They won’t (and can’t) throw either of you out.

I did this while my daughter was in my wife’s womb. They tried to say that we couldn’t make any recordings of the ultrasounds. I made recordings of the ultrasounds. They asked me to stop, and I didn’t stop, and that was the end of it.

Admittedly you have to be willing to break social norms for this to even be an option, which is immensely difficult for most polite people. My solution was to remind myself I wasn’t being rude, and that I was a paying customer. (Unlike most people who say "I’m a paying customer," I always treat everybody well and respectfully; it still boggles my mind how awful most people are to e.g. support reps who are only doing their job. But this isn’t that situation, and it’s useful to remember that sometimes it’s true that you’re a paying customer and deserve to get your money’s worth when the only obvious downside is "they’ll be slightly annoyed for a few minutes.")

> My solution was to remind myself I wasn’t being rude, and that I was a paying customer.

Maybe I have a different definition of “rude”, but I feel that openly ignoring someone’s request is at the very least disrespectful, if not rude.

I’m not saying you’re wrong for continuing to record, but to your point of:

> you have to be willing to break social norms

I think this also means you have to be willing to be rude.

But it sounds like you’re arguing that being “correct” by definition makes it “not rude”.

But I’d argue whether you’re rude has little to do with whether you’re right, and more to do with how others think of your actions, especially when you’re knowingly doing something that might offend others (i.e. ignoring someone’s request).

I think a less “rude” approach might be to, for example, do an audio recording of the post-anesthesia conversation without the nurse’s knowledge.

Again, this is my take, but maybe I’m the one that’s off here.

> Maybe I have a different definition of “rude”, but I feel that openly ignoring someone’s request is at the very least disrespectful, if not rude.

The problem is an asymmetric social contract. The business has no problem making a disrespectful request ("do not record this thing you're paying for") and this puts the client in the uncomfortable position of having to break social norms by ignoring said request.

This is often a problem when dealing with assholes and is why I absolutely refuse to work with them. They have no qualms about doing unreasonable things and they put you in the unenviable position of then having to violate social norms by pushing back.

It's not a matter of disrespect as much as of disobeyance. If there isn't (or shouldn't be) any subordination, disobeyance may not imply disrespect. The problem arises when people differ about whether there's subordination.

Regardless of hierarchy, responding to a request by ignoring it is pretty rude.

I disagree. Being rude is about being offensive; this is different from someone being offended.

For example, I was mugged at gunpoint once. The person very politely asked for my walled (it turns out when you have a gun pointed at someone you can afford to be polite). When I asked if I could keep my wallet and just hand over the cash, he responded (again surprisingly politely) in the negative.

If I had just ignored his request, would that have been "pretty rude"? [Ignoring whether or not this course of action would be advisable.]

And for a second hypothetical example. If I asked you to respond to me agreeing with everything I said, would it be "pretty rude" for you to ignore it?

In both cases the answer has to be no. The nature and intent of the request have to be considered when determining whether or not ignoring it is rude. And in this context (recording a medical event), they almost certainly want you to not record in case they do something wrong and the recording is used to prove it. It's a self serving request and it potentially works against the best interest of the patient in events where they believe their care is not sufficient.

I would respond to your request with "no" instead of ignoring it.

Saying no isn't rude. Ignoring that someone has spoken at all is, in most cases.

You can’t be rude ignoring a request that is both dumb and wholly a product of bureaucracy. Such requests are themselves rude, in a kind of weird impersonal way.

Of course you can. For instance, if you would reply to the request by insulting the physical appearance of the one making the request, that would be rude.

I'm going to assert that a key component in being rude is being offensive. And I think that being offensive needs to be separated from someone being offended.

Here's what I mean. I've got some distant relatives who think I'm being rude because unlike them I don't get into an escalating argument with my wife over trivial things at family events that cumulates in a shouting match.

I'm absolutely breaking their social norms by having a positive relationship with my wife and they're definitely offended by it. However, to say that I'm being offensive or rude robs those words of their meaning.

I wonder if that's an IP issue ("we own the scan and might want to sell it back to you") or a liability thing ("we don't want you to have a copy of a scan video in case the sonographer didn't do it perfectly and you sue us").

In the US, HIPAA grants you the right to access your own health information [0]. I recommend asking providers to burn the DICOMs to a DVD (or send your images to you via an online portal, if they and you prefer) whenever you have medical imaging done.

[0] https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-individuals/right-to-access/in...

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