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Comment by alemanek | Hacker News Reader

Adding an additional comment here for a little extra visibility. I would absolutely love, like really love, a USB-C portrait monitor version of this. If I could just plug this in to my existing laptop and use it for reading specs, technical docs, …etc that would be amazing.

Android tablet is a tough sell for my employer due to compliance, security, and such. So buying one of those for work use would take like a year minimum gathering all the necessary approvals and likely would still get denied by someone. But, a dumb monitor with no real OS I can expense that without approval. just a heads up to my boss really to say I am buying this and here is why.

I know you are a small company so have to pick your battles. But, maybe something to consider down the road.

EDIt: forgot to say, congrats on the launch. Looks like a great product.

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I second this. I really enjoy reading and writing on an Onyx e-ink tab, and I like the full Android functionality, but I can never use it for work or even for personal email logins, because I don't trust their custom Android build.

I would be somewhat more inclined to trust Daylight than Onyx, but any custom OS is too potentially vulnerable to backdoors for my use cases.

Something like this that you could load your own Linux flavor onto, or simply this tech as a monitor / drawing pad, I would drop the money in a heartbeat.

As long as the bootloader isn't locked, porting mainline Linux shouldn't be as bad as with E-ink devices. Here's a Ubuntu Touch port to another Helios G99 device [1]; I really hope the RLCD doesn't require host driver support.

[1]: https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/device/vidofnir/

You need USB-C DisplayPort (DP Alt Mode). Unfortunately it's not a software limitation oftentimes, most of the times it's a hardware design limitation. I guess Onyx figured that they can have two different product lines and milk both, as opposed to what they used to have, which was an HDMI port on the higher end models.

Best would be DP alt mode. However software to send video over regular USB data lines is fairly common and reportedly works okay so long as you have drivers (which generally are not supported to the next Windows release) and are not trying something too heavy - not good enough for games but often good enough for the office type work the OP is asking for.

Is there such a thing as a tablet that accepts video input? In other words, use it as a tablet, then connect a mini hdmi or whatever and it turns into a monitor. Disconnect, and it's a tablet again.

There are certainly some e-ink devices that are able to do this, the TechnologyConnections fellow did a couple of videos that cover it, amongst other things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NfX0vlCa4k#t=15m50 & https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D38dcArwCNc

Though he is using a Boox product and I'm wary of them over the GPL violation thing: as well as the general “they'd piss & moan and send the lawyers round if someone took their stuff and used it unlicensed” hypocrisy, the paranoid cynic in me thinks there is something they want to hide in their customisations (hooks for calling home or some such).

Also, those clips are a few years old now so some of the problems he was having may have been ironed out in newer devices & software updates.

Another option is running a VMC client on any tablet that isn't walled off so that you can't: there are a number of VNC servers that create a hidden virtual screen and mirror that so the connecting client because the extra screen.

The minisforum v3 is a windows tablet that can also act like a monitor - https://www.minisforum.com/page/v3/index.html?lang=en

And, I think the lenovo yoga tab 13 is an Android tablet with a similar feature: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/tablets/android-tablets/lenov...

The recently released Minisforum V3 AMD tablet has this:

https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-v3

I use a hdmi capture dongle with iPad to turn it into a monitor. Not quite what you want, but as an option.

Which dongle do you use? This is the best option at the moment till we can afford a more expensive chip in the next gen that accepts hdmi in

Still on the hunt for a really good video capture / hdmi capture dongle

I'm using this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08Z3XDYQ7/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b...

Same here. I use degoogled Onyx Boox for notes, reading books, sheet music, sketching... Barely connect to internet, beacuse I don't trust their OS and apps. Apps are actually quite good (NeoReader).

There are e-ink monitors, e.g. [1]. I’ve never used one so I can’t speak to how well they work.

[1] https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-curved-e-ink-mo...

How much customization is needed for a device like this?

Drivers?

I'd think most of it would come down to a custom launcher. Though I guess they also modify the UI?

https://onyxboox.com/boox_mirapro

Good, but definitely not 60fps or ghosting free. Source: using one right now.

Modos is working on a 60fps e-ink monitor, no idea about ghosting improvements: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40423746 -> https://www.modos.tech/blog/modos-paper-monitor-pre-launch-o...

> Modos is working on a 60fps e-ink monitor

Fundamentally, my opinion is all these things trying to move electrophoretic ink fast are misguided. You end up using so much energy trying to move particles that are inherently designed to be bistable. If you want to play a video, you're better off using material physics that was intended to be fast from the start, not trying to force a material that's intended to be slow to fight itself.

Stuff like "We need 50,000 people interested in being a part of creating an open-hardware e-ink ecosystem". This seems like trying to drum up a kickstarter. The modos founder, Alex Soto, what's his track record? Googling seems to show him making ridiculous claims like "To make matters worse, the E Ink Corporation holds the patents for its e-ink technology and only licenses its technology to large manufacturers making availability or mass adoption difficult."

I would love to see him explain that in detail with concrete facts.

I would love it just as a screen for things like Slack or Discord as I'm on the move a lot :D

If/when we release a bootloader unlock tool, and you can flash a custom ROM onto it, would that work for you.. be good enough?

> Something like this that you could load your own Linux flavor onto

Did you consider PineNote?

Note tha its production was put to stop (last year IIRC) with reserve to possibly start it again. AFAICT market reception was lukewarm at best and it was not financially viable.

I would have loved one, but I guess leaving the development of a proper OS to the community is not going to land mass adoption.

Average Joe needs a device to buy and use, not to buy and tinker with.

"Market reception" is never going to be very good when you never sell the product. What Pine Notes they made were only sold on a beg-us-for-an-invite basis.

When plugged in to a computer, it would be cool if it reverts to being a smart display with touch screen. It could still charge and transfer files too maybe? I don’t know enough about USB-C, but I really wish devices could do dual function like this.

It's feasible: a couple of Lenovo Yoga Tabs do this* running Android 13+ until plugged in by an HDMI out (which I believe works with an adapter to USB-C). Ex: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/tablets/android-tablets/lenov... *(Not touch-enabled in display mode, I believe.)

I have a Yoga Tab 13 (the more interesting sibling of the P-series) I regularly use as a standalone tablet and external laptop monitor - usually lives in the same bag. It's been perfectly seamless for me whether using a PC or a smartphone (surprisingly so). (I believe it shipped w Android 12.)

Of course, it's not epaper - but it is technically feasible.

Can you run Linux on this yoga tab?

When venturing into the file transfer territory, a lot of employers are going to veto the device over security concerns. Just like they wouldn’t want employees plugging in random USB drives found on the street.

Or USB drives period. My former employer didn't allow cell phones or really any device that could connect things from the outside. We had the Internet, but it all had to go through their own managed pipes.

Totally fine to bring in a monitor though. Not sure if that would still be true today, given the connectivity of things. I bet you could still bring in a monitor, but you'd risk needing to prove that there was no way it could do anything other than be a monitor.

I think there would be better luck with a dedicated monitor port (HDMI, DisplayPort, DVI, VGA), rather than a USB-C monitor, depending on how hard things are locked down.

The Minisforum V3 is a tablet that can also be used as a monitor via USB-C, so definitely possible. I wish more tablets would work that way.

There's the spacedesk app that can do this with Android and Windows. Works fairly well.

USB-C iPads can act as monitors via HDMI adapter + various apps.

Another plus one from me. I don’t have the same workplace policies, but even for personal use I’d prefer a ‘plain’ monitor.

I would also buy without thinking a mini monitor, but no so much a tablet. Please think about launching it.

I was about to write the same comment but you expressed it much better. I would also be happy if it could be both an android tablet but have a monitor mode where it just becomes a monitor.

Plus one on this. Would be amazing if there was a display mode possible or just a variant with a usb to edp board inside without the android tablet bits / battery (even if it meant losing the wacom digitizer in the process)

You can use VNC to make an android tablet into a 2nd monitor. The latency isnt good enough for playing games or anything but for web pages and documents it works great.

I've recently been using a piece of software called RustDesk, which so far feels pretty performant, better than VNC, RDP, TeamViewer, RealVNC etc.: https://rustdesk.com/

You can host a relay inside of a Docker container if you need it as well and it even supports AV1. There's also password auth for each device and permission control.

They have a mobile app too, though I haven't used it as much as the desktop variety, might be worth a shot.

I've tried that before but the latency bothers me a lot even when typing, etc.

This doesn't scratch the employer itch, but I think you could use an android VNC viewer app and then run a VNC server targeting a small vertical monitor attached to your workstation.

I imagine pulling up the document that I want to read, putting it on the correct monitor, and then grabbing the tablet and taking it to my hammock for some heads down reading time.

Why not just buy a Mira Pro? https://onyxboox.com/boox_mirapro

Onyx is a GPL violator unfortunately: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23735962

Any update on that? There's a comment there that suggests a simple legal "you better not do that" letter is all it takes. Obviously, I am not a lawyer, but I was looking at Boox tablets

There is also a transflective lcd portable monitor: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/radiant-world-s-first-tra...

Video from MyDeepGuide: https://youtube.com/watch?v=NXLwc0eJZsw

Thanks for the link. I am actually just starting my research into that one and options from Dasung.

This is one of those things that I didn’t know I needed/wanted until this HN post. But, I get bad headaches from eye strain and a have a heavy text based workflow so definitely in that target market.

> If I could just plug this in to my existing laptop and use it

Or to my existing phone.

Appreciate the appreciation and thoughtfully laid out idea!

I think we’re actually intrigued and open to build this!

What helps to know: - is 1080p ok? - what’s the minimum size you’ll be ok with ? - aspect ratio? - any other important details?

If you did this; would it be at all possible to push a software update so we could use the Daylight tablet as a monitor? Or are there hardware limitations?

(adding my voice) I would buy a dumb monitor of this without thinking. Name your price Daylight team.

Re monitors, you might want to have a look at the Modos’s Glider[1] that was also mentioned here recently[2]? Don’t know if they support a portrait mount out of the box.

[1] https://www.crowdsupply.com/modos-tech/modos-paper-monitor

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40358309

If I could use this as an external monitor plugged into my MacBook I would have bought one on the spot.

> I would absolutely love, like really love, a USB-C portrait monitor version of this.

Would this not be better solved with some remote desktop protocol (RDP or VNC) than with USB? Then you can use it with wifi and just walk off with the device.

If you can make it bigger for use as a regular monitor, I'd pay good money for it.

> Android tablet is a tough sell for my employer due to compliance, security, and such

From a compliance POV what's an acceptable alternative? Would some unix variant be any more palatable?

In some industries, anything that “computes” or has a data connection is strictly regulated. If data can move in or out, it needs to be verified.

So, if you want to avoid those validation steps, it would need to be a dumb device without an OS. Like the parent said - just a monitor.

I agree with the sentiment, but it is harder and harder to find truly "dumb" devices anymore. USB has a complicated (and vulnerable) firmware stack. Monitors have hackable on screen display controllers. Unless you want to go back to VGA... Just saying...

https://github.com/redballoonshenanigans/monitordarkly

In this context, I think of two things: hackable spying and data exfiltration.

If a device runs processes that can be hacked so that it can report on your activities. Capturing the display or keyboard input would be examples. This generally requires an active network connection, but not always. Because this device runs a version of Android, it’s potentially hackable (I’m not saying it isn’t secure, just that it would have to be validated).

Second, if a device can store or transfer data, it would be possible to send confidential documents out the door without knowing about it. Because this has on-board storage (and is small), it has this issue too.

A monitor, even if its OSD/firmware was hacked, is much less likely to be able to do either of these things.

There are industries that have real concerns about data privacy and security. In these cases, the dumber a device, generally the better.

Dumb devices can have smarts; they just need to be incapable of shenanigans. Maybe a monitor can be reprogrammed to capture screen shots, but without storage or a network connection, that isn't useful.

What about a firmware flash that nukes the Android part and makes it behave as a display, which hopefully you can flash back to your OS if policy or usecase changes?

I would think the main thing would be no network hardware and ideally no network stack. After that, a minimum of local storage- nothing persistent outside of firmware, and certainly nothing that would provide any type of file system visible to the host computer.

>Android tablet is a tough sell for my employer due to compliance, security, and such.

I can only imagine how much tougher a Windows sell would be to your employer.

I have an M1 MacBook Pro. But, it is centrally managed, provisioned, monitored, …etc.

It isn’t that it is Android. It is that they would have to sort out all of those things on this Android tablet for just me. So, it is that it isn’t their device within their standardized catalog that is the issue.

Folks in my group can choose from Mac, Windows, and Linux options but we have to choose from the set of standardized options or risk approval hell.

Their employer likely has absolute control over their Windows install. My personal Windows laptop isn't allowed on the corporate network either.

Because it allows Android apps, might there be some screen sharing utility that would allow it to be used as a 2nd monitor?

Maybe. But for some employers, it's only their devices. Which would still mean going through the process above.

spacedesk (sadly Windows only)

Does it support a separate work profile that can be managed by the Ivanti Mobile@Work app?

This. Absolutely. A second paper like display would be perfect.

This is actually what I was hoping to make this summer...

shut up and take my money.

Add another +1 for me. Would buy it today.

Oh hell yeah!

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