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Comment by toomuchtodo | Hacker News Reader

Tesla does not divulge your location to law enforcement without a warrant, and stands out amongst other automakers who simply hand it over. They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing.

https://www.tesla.com/legal/privacy

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driv... | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39666976

https://www.ftc.gov/policy/advocacy-research/tech-at-ftc/202...

Edit: Obligatory political process call to action: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40203558

(own Teslas, have submitted comments to Senator Wyden and the FTC on the topic, responsible for data security and privacy at a fintech, thoughts and opinions are my own)

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On the other hand, Tesla has some notably, egregious incidents, including the reportedly-regular sharing of videos on internal messaging until at least 2022.

https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...

Mozilla report has more:

https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/privacynotincluded/tesla/

It's troubling that basically every major auto maker has some flavor of privacy invasive tech that can't be turned off.

I'm not going to boil the ocean in a single thread, but recognize that there is nuance, lots of work ahead, and that consumer rights must be robust with punitive costs for willful negligence. There will always be control failures. If you're fine losing the functionality, pull the RF on your Tesla until laws catch up. I have managed the risk within my threat model, and accept the remaining risk. If all else fails, I will complain loudly to regulators and my representatives when needed to seek recourse, while also continuing to apply pressure as a citizen activist to keep moving towards better statute and regulatory rules around consumer data, data privacy, and so forth.

> They also were one of few automakers who wasn't selling your data to LexisNexis Risk Solutions for insurance pricing.

I don't understand how this practice is legal. There really should be a way to request that my driving data is deleted, or at least opt-out from having it sold.

I've also been trying to get LexisNexis to share a copy of my consumer file with me - which they refuse to do because of "identity verification" purposes, even though they don't ask any questions on the form to establish identity. I feel like they're intentionally making it hard for individuals to see what data they have on them.

If LexisNexis is not producing, I recommend filing complaints with both the CFPB and the FTC, as well as your state's attorney general.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/

https://www.naag.org/find-my-ag/

I've encountered the same difficulty trying to get my data from LexisNexis Risk Solutions, and I too suspect this is intentional. Though my recollection is the form allowed me to enter some identity verification info like ssn or dob, but whatever I entered wasn't sufficient for them.

You have that right if you are a EU citizen - under GDPR you can serve a subject data request (to first learn what they have on you) and then a deletion request ("right to be forgotten").

my bike manufacturer does not divulge my location either, but in a much easier to trust way and without a possibility for circumvention.

Cars knowing their own location can be really useful, but why does the manufacturer need to know about it? and to begin with, why are they allowed to know about it?

I can only speak to Tesla; they can display the location of my vehicles in the mobile app, I can log my vehicle location constantly with a third party app (Teslascope, Tessie, etc), and other similar location based functionality. I want this functionality, I am willing to opt in to it, but I still expect robust controls (both internal and external) around the data they store and process. I understand some people may wish to opt out; they should be provided the option to do so, along with an acknowledged loss in capabilities that rely on those location services. Protect the consumer's choice and their data.

Genuinely inquiring: Why do you want this functionality? For things like finding it in a parking lot and such?

Similar to Apple's Find My, to know where the asset and family members (with their consent) are, where they're headed, or their ETA to me. Vehicle speed and location logging has gotten me out of more than one traffic violation.

I see, that could be useful indeed. Thanks!

> For things like finding it in a parking lot and such?

Yes.

> Tesla does not divulge your location to law enforcement without a warrant

Good to know, but legally this can change whenever Tesla wants, no?

And yet I trust Tesla less because I observe their CEO as erratic and unreliable.

I agree that facts are facts and weigh a lot, I can’t exactly shut off the human nature in me that simply does not trust anything that guy controls.

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