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Comment by JumpCrisscross | Hacker News Reader

> the area of the "my back yard" is much smaller, and more densely packed in European countries

Germany is the 65th most densely-populated country in the world, behind the U.K., Japan, the Netherlands, Taiwan and Singapore [1]. It is not too dense for industry, that’s literally just thinly-veiled NIMBYism.

My point is a realistic solution is never offered. Should Tesla not expand in favour of ICE production? Is the solution to deindustrialise Germany and put all the plants in Eastern Europe?

It’s a short-term fixation on nearby problems without regards for global impact, and it’s characteristic of the German greens.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_depend...

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Pairs well with corporates “next quarter without regards for global impact”

At some point we all just project “Gfy.” and refuse to “blink” and measure ourselves; we just keep rolling, saying “Gfy.” to those in the way. Maybe we couch that in pointless arguments like “where else should this unnecessary car company exist?”

Doesn’t really seem like just a “German greens” thing to project non-existent authority

They're there for a model change. We don't need more cars, we need less cars (and less of several other things). So the agenda is very simple: just don't build. And yes, maybe Tesla will go somewhere else but other activists will fight there.

And yes, activists will loose that fight, but they'll go on and ultimately, things will change. Paid holidays came like this. The end of slavery too. And a few other things.

There's no "realistic solution" because there is simply no choice to make. It's just "no means no".

Now, hopefully, those activists won't buy cars or buy the least possible. And that will have an effect too. But then you'll say: "if we stop selling cars then what's the solution? what about the workforce". Then again: they'll do something else. Because the governments don't want to see unemployment. And maybe there will be too much unemployment. But then again, maybe it's time to adapt to a new world where 50% of population is unemployed. But believe me, when that number will be big enough, politics will adapt.

> We don't need more cars, we need less cars (and less of several other things). So the agenda is very simple: just don't build

Then motion for capping car sales, or adding a massive tax to them. This protest just shifts supply to imports and ICE vehicles. More pointedly: to cars not made in their backyard.

It has zero effect on Germany’s car cult743 because they’re not targeting cars broadly, they’re not even targeting cars near them; they’re targeting this (and only this) factory.

> when that number will be big enough, politics will adapt

If protests cause 50% unemployment (or a 50% drop in living standards), the historic political adaptation is a government that ends the right to protest.

> Sure, but the point is where would they prefer Tesla expand?

Tesla is not some necessity, it doesn't have to expand, this isn't like rejecting housing or new sanitation facilities.

Oh, protecting local established manufacturers. That makes sense.

Why not? It's also not like this is a foreign established manufacturer like Toyota, it's an Elon Musk joint, I can't think of many less trustworthy businessmen off the top of my head. I think they have every reason to doubt any promises Tesla makes, and doubt its future as well.

Don't accept promises, get written contracts with expensive penalty clauses.

That's a good idea, but never seems to happen; certainly it didn't in this case. Even when it does, the penalties are inevitably a fraction of the realized profits.

Why is it always Tesla vs. ICE? Seems like a false dichotomy.

> Why is it always Tesla vs. ICE? Seems like a false dichotomy

Tesla is the largest EV-only manufacturer in Germany, and is the second-largest seller of EVs in the country [1]. (Also, unless there is a record of Tesla factories being unusually dirty, the protesters are protesting expanding EV production in general. That it’s owned by Tesla seems irrelevant, another manufacturer would raise the same stated concerns.)

[1] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2023-full-year-ger...

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