Richest Americans Now Pay Less Tax Than Working Class in Historical First
newsweek.com
newsweek.com
1) The rich have never paid less
2) The bottom half of earners have never paid more
3) The Carnegies and Rockefellers existed despite the oppressive tax rate of the past
So what gives?
Privately rich people have the power to change the world, sometimes for good and sometimes for evil. The dream is to eliminate the Bill Gateses, Elon Musks, Donald Trumps, and George Soroses of the world, so that only those connected to government and The Party have real financial power.
Draw the line low enough, and it might eliminate the Paul Grahams of the world. Or even, as in Russia, small time independent farmers (https://www.britannica.com/topic/kulak ).
I obviously think this is a terrible idea. Destroying the wealthy out of jealousy is a bloody impulse without a bottom that leaves everyone powerless. But it does greatly empower those who can make themselves exceptions to the rule, which is the actual point.
How about destroying the wealthy because they ultimately decide if your child will get medical treatment?
[0]https://www.vanityfair.com/news/elon-musk-twitter-ultimatum
Rage without justice or reason is a solid indication you're being exploited. Not generally for your benefit, either. The people who want you to help them destroy the wealthy don't intend to make you president when they're done.
For what it's worth, I'm of the opinion that the combination of very expensive health care and the fact that health insurance is tied to employment effectively add up to a form of slavery. That's a great evil. I'm sorry it so directly affects you personally. It's easy to point to the employers who apparently benefit from the situation, but they didn't ask for things to be this way and are also struggling with how expensive your insurance is. If you lose health insurance in a layoff, that's an indication that the problem is bigger than your employer can handle on your behalf. You don't make enough money to cover your expenses - a harsh situation, but fundamentally a problem for charity, not for business.
I think when we suffer, or are afraid we will suffer, it is easy to get angry at the wrong people. I would suggest that the billionaire next door has nothing to do with your medical stress (and for all you know, may be running a foundation to cure your disease), and that your beef ought to be with a medical industry that makes critical treatment so expensive and leaves you with so few alternatives. That is the kidnapper in this scenario, and everything else is arguing over who should pay the ransom. I could point to a dozen cursed mechanisms that make things that way. With pharmaceuticals alone, there seem to be a hundred different flavors of people held hostage by extremely and unnecessarily expensive treatments - a famous one being diabetics needing hundreds of dollars to pay for a medicine that the veterinary world manages to produce for horses for mere cents.
The cost of medicine is making us poor, and somewhat enslaved to boot. This is not a problem of inequality. Medicare is an attempt to provide a financially equitable solution, and is struggling on both ends: doctors refusing to take it because it doesn't pay enough to cover their expenses, and the government concerned that the program is so expensive, it couldn't be paid for no matter how much you took from all the rich people. The problem is not the distribution of money, but the cost of the service itself.
The industry is in crisis on many levels, and due for a total reboot. And there are lots of (sometimes rich!) people attempting just that. I can point to the direct primary care phenomenon and the recent revolution in type 2 diabetes care as two obvious and recent ones. But there are zillions - I even see YC companies in the health space pretty frequently.
Broadly speaking, I would say that we as a population are becoming sicker and are leaning on a medical industry that can't own up to its own inability to make us well - but is willing to very expensively fail at the job. (And I don't just mean obesity and heart disease, though those are obvious examples - it seems to me that many health problems follow this pattern.) That opinion puts me pretty far outside the mainstream, but then again I think it is becoming increasingly obvious that the mainstream is in crisis.
There are specific paths out of the disaster, for specific people and specific problems. Look for them, and keep looking, and help others. In the mean time, be careful with frustration and rage. Plenty of forces want to exploit your anger for their ends - don't get played. Be clear on what the problem actually is and stay focused on that.
[1] I am using "Medicare" as a metonymy for Medicare, Medicaid, and similar plans both real and proposed, to pay for medical care via taxes.
also, it is extremely annoying when people mislead by looking at personal income tax without adjuating the effective tax rate up by what has already been paid by the corporation. Dividend and cap gains taxes should be lower because the corp pays tax and how a dollar is earned shouldnt affect the tax paid on it. The goal is for the corp tax plus the dividend/cap gains tax to roughly equal what the tax would be if the person just earned the dollar personally and it largely does that at these rates.
I guess taxes are supposed to deal with this
I think many of the top tech billionaires have their wealth in company stock (in the case of Jeff Bezos and Steve Ballmer, Bill Gates has diversified away from just MSFT stock, Elon Musk is mostly TSLA and SpaceX)
If the rich actually sit on most of their wealth (all cash - 0% interest, no income, no interest-bearing instruments/bonds, no selling stocks) then they'd pay no taxes on their wealth in the USA. But inflation would hit them hard, especially in the past couple of years.
That would be sitting on it, yes.
Amazon gets money when they sell new shares in a public offering. Subsequent exchanges don’t affect their cash on hand.
The fact that Jeff Bezos can manage to quality for a child tax credit is a bit of a loophole, though.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trov...
> In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money — his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What’s more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children.
You might argue that they considered the possibility and decided closing the loophole would do more harm than good (means testing frequently does this), but it certainly wasn't the intention of the credit to give $4k to the world's second wealthiest person.
If they did not intend for Bezos to take advantage of income limits, they should have written the law better so that he couldn't.
Again agreeing or disagreeing with policy doesn’t change if something is a loophole or not. Handouts because someone is installing rooftop solar are still handouts even if they get baked into tax policy.
Exercise an options contract and you’re taxed before you sell the shares. At that point you could still ultimately lose money just as with capital gains.
The problem with exercising an option is that the stock might not be traded or can't be sold, then you have to pay the tax out of pocket, since Uncle Sam doesn't want some private non-traded stock.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trov...
> So how do megabillionaires pay their megabills while opting for $1 salaries and hanging onto their stock? According to public documents and experts, the answer for some is borrowing money — lots of it.
After decades of avoiding taxes on it, there's a final loophole!
> The notion of dying as a tax benefit seems paradoxical. Normally when someone sells an asset, even a minute before they die, they owe 20% capital gains tax. But at death, that changes. Any capital gains till that moment are not taxed. This allows the ultrarich and their heirs to avoid paying billions in taxes. The “step-up in basis” is widely recognized by experts across the political spectrum as a flaw in the code.
I think you're may be confusing it with estate taxes. (Which the ProPublica article addresses in the subsequent few paragraphs.)
> And after death, the common understanding goes, there’s a final no-escape clause: the estate tax, which imposes a steep tax rate on sums over $11.7 million. ProPublica found that none of these factors alter the fundamental picture.
> It’s clear, though, from aggregate IRS data, tax research and what little trickles into the public arena about estate planning of the wealthy that they can readily escape turning over almost half of the value of their estates. Many of the richest create foundations for philanthropic giving, which provide large charitable tax deductions during their lifetimes and bypass the estate tax when they die.
> Wealth managers offer clients a range of opaque and complicated trusts that allow the wealthiest Americans to give large sums to their heirs without paying estate taxes. The IRS data obtained by ProPublica gives some insight into the ultrawealthy’s estate planning, showing hundreds of these trusts.
I was surprised to see that arrow 100% of the way to the left — but then after I voted, it changed to say "Most Readers Rated This Article CENTER / FAIR". So I'm not sure why it defaults to left, but I don't think that represents the actual rating.
- you make $100k a year
- you pay $20k in taxes
- one year, you buy a house for $400k
- in the next year, its value doubles to $800k
- I say "your income (including unrealized gains) last year was $500k. You only paid $20k in taxes. That's only a 4% rate! How unfair!"
Among other things, I find the whole thing silly because of course it'll only be used to criticize the low tax rates of people who have unrealized gains. If Amazon crashes and Jeff Bezos's net worth goes down by $20B and he pays $100M in taxes, no one will write an article about how unfair it is to tax the poor guy $100M on his incredibly low income of negative $20B. Poor guy, he'd probably be the lowest-income person in the whole country!
I have bought, lived in, and sold several houses over my adult life. Never in those transactions was I “homeless” in the colloquial sense. Here is the trick in case you are interested and unsure how to do it—after your closing date is set…you go find another place to rent, you move all the stuff in the home that you are selling to the place you are renting. Then you perform the transaction to sell your home. Go home to your rental place, pour all the cash on your bed you earned from the sale of your home, and roll around in it.
To steel man property taxes, land is immobile and requires certain government services even when it is unused (perhaps even more-so). Taxing that property is a direct an efficient(from a taxation perspective) way to fund the government services associated with that property.
I'm trying to be more involved in my local community, but we need some change on the national level, and I'm concerned things wont get better until they gets worse first.
In percentage terms the middle class is overtaxed the most of course. But percentage terms are an extremely misleading way to look at this.
Being middle class I'm more angry that the bottom 50% on net pay no income taxes and I'm a net payer into their lifestyle.
Ah yes, that wonderful lifestyle of being poor. How dare they not pay for that privilege.
The proposal to tax unrealized capital gains would not tax them as ordinary income.
The proposal we are discussing does align capital gains on ordinary income:
“Long-term capital gains and qualified dividends of taxpayers with taxable income of more than $1 million would be taxed at ordinary rates, with 37 percent generally being the highest rate.”
Another proposal is to even bring rates higher than now:
“A separate proposal would first raise the top ordinary rate to 39.6 percent … An additional proposal would increase the net investment income tax rate by 1.2 percentage points above $400,000 … Together, the proposals would increase the top marginal rate on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends to 44.6 percent,”
"The proposal would impose a minimum tax of 25 percent on total income, generally inclusive of unrealized capital gains, for all taxpayers with wealth (that is, the difference obtained by subtracting liabilities from assets) greater than $100 million."
A budget is normally set and it is funded by property taxes as a ratio of the asset value compared to all other asset values in the county. If your home didn’t increase in value nor did anyone else’s you’d pay the same amount because that budget has to be realized one way or the other.
Some jurisdictions make this less transparent by taxing at a flat rate (x% of assessed home value) but that’s misleading because they determined that rate to set their budget to begin with. If there were a downturn in property values across the board that didn’t happen at the same time as a recession somehow such that the monetary outflow remained high (high employment for the local government, high costs, no deflation, etc) then there would be a budget crisis and they’d revisit that percentage.
The federal government sets a budget. Then taxes everyone's financial holdings in the same way as you describe (in the second paragraph) to meet that budget?
If I understand you correctly, the way it would work is that federal government sets a budget of $100. Alice has $1000 of stocks and Bob has $500 dollars of bonds. So Alice pays $66 of taxes and Bob $33. If next year Alice has $2000 dollars of stocks and Bob has $500 dollars of bonds. Then Alice pays $80 and Bob $20.
Top 1% of earners pay like 50% of all taxes
Top 10% pay 80% of all taxes
Bottom 50% pay 0% or negative amount of taxes after benefit transfers.
It's not. Relatively speaking, the rich do pay less % of their share of income in taxes, despite them obviously being way more able to pay taxes than the lower castes.
Warren Buffett infamously paid (and likely still pays) less of his income than his own secretary. This is beyond ridiculous.
And that doesn't even take into account the obscene gains in wealth that aren't taxed at all (partially, because taxing unrealized gains is hard). The rich just evade that tax (or practically, they shift the payment date towards infinity) by taking ultra low-interest loans on their stock and pay the interest from dividends.
[1] https://money.cnn.com/2013/03/04/news/economy/buffett-secret...
It's not entirely clear what you are trying to say, but as a share of income earned, the rich earn 20% of the income, they pay 40% of the income taxes collected by the government. They objectively pay more than a fair share.
The question is what one defines as fair. For me, fairness is defined as "how much can one pay in relation to his income"... and then it's simple: when the secretary earning 48k a year has to pay 5% more in taxes, that's 2.4k less for her - and she'll feel that very immediately. Meanwhile, assuming Buffett has a yearly income of 480 million dollars (officially, he has a 100k/y salary, but there's no way his real income is that low given his net worth of ~130 billion dollars, so I just plugged in some number that is likely still way too low), if he has to pay 5% more taxes that's 24 million dollars - a sum that won't even register on any of his decisions.
Once you pass a certain amount of wealth and/or income, you just have/earn so much that any kind of tax increase or decrease will not make any material difference in your lifestyle.
Therefore, "fairness" for me would be defined as "all members of the economy, both the poor and the rich, contribute to society in a way so that both can live a reasonable life after taxes".
Also mentioned in the article:
> Another factor is that many modern billionaires live off their wealth rather than their incomes, unlike most ordinary Americans.
Lucky duckies! https://gocomics.typepad.com/tomthedancingbugblog/2010/07/lu...
Also, how does the top 10% pay 80% of taxes but the top 1% pay 50%? I highly doubt they're paying 130% in taxes collectively...
The top 2-10% presumably pay about 30%.