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Comment by srwest | Hacker News Reader

If didn't read the docs, noticed hkjl moved around, and accidentally deleted 3 folders with ctrl+d seeing if I could scroll down faster. Scary defaults if you have Vim muscle memory.

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It really weirds me out how many people use a sprinkling of vim keybindings but don't use more. Like how many vim users don't know <C-[> (esc) or contextual completion like <C-x><C-p> (:help ins-completion). I see so many people use plugins for things that already exist in vim but people never discuss.

One that bites me a lot is when a vim keybinding is implemented, has insert mode, and they don't also rebind <C-w>. Go from trying to delete a word (backwards) but end up losing a whole session. It's such muscle memory I sometimes do it on webpages, but maybe that one is a feature instead of a bug lol

This is my biggest complaint with keybindings on Linux/Windows, that Ctrl means “escape codes” in terminal emulator applications and “window/UI operations” in every other application.

By contrast, in macOS all the window/UI keybindings are typically Cmd (Cmd-W) which means that GUI applications attempting to layer on vi keybindings don’t have to also audit all the Ctrl keybindings that might be doing something wildly different compared to what vi users expect.

Cmd for UI and Ctrl for terminal just makes for such a nice default convention.

I agree— having switched back to Windows five years ago, this is one of the biggest things I miss about the Mac hardware. Having a separate key just avoids the whole drama around whether Ctrl-C is "copy the thing" or "shut it all down", and which of those functions is going to get remapped to Ctrl-Shift-C and all the fallout from that.

Configurable windows managers on Linux let you code a “super” key. I like the Window key, since it serves no other purpose, and never overlaps with default bindings on Linux.

So the Cmd/Ctrl split on Mac maps nicely to the Win/Ctrl split on Linux.

While I do this too I understand the above complaint. I think naturally linux should have more of a system similar to what OSX does. I mean I'm constantly switching between OSX and Linux machines but more and more recently I've been at at mac computer while inside a linux system and that is very seemless because it is the GUI that fucks shit up. But now there's so much momentum that I'm not sure they can go back. I think the only way to make this correction is for a big distro like Ubuntu/Pop/Manjaro/Endeavor to switch to a default with alt or super as they windowed operating key but have the option to switch back (should be implemented in the install process and made clear and easy to undo. But without making it the default it'll always stay the other way. (first introduction should be non-default)).

Super is the "Windows" key (or the Command key), it's the "mod key" that can then be set to super or alt/meta or whatever.

For the reasons you suggest (WMs often heavily using the super key), I would not want it to be used in the macOS way as I have a few dozen keybinds I'd lose or have to remap then. Stuff like focusing or moving windows or workspaces. Emacs can also make use of the super key, though I don't know if it has anything bound using it by default.

The macOS approach is cool and makes some sense, but I wouldn't want it forced on me, and I'm kinda glad I didn't imprint on it.

This isn't true though. Control + arrow keys for example navigate desktops on MacOS. On Linux I can at least restrict my desktop environment's shortcuts to super, leaving the other mods open for applications. MacOS uses every single modifier, sometimes together.

When you use EXWM (Emacs X Window Manager), this is actually a blessing! It means you can bind Super keys only in Emacs and have them do exactly the same thing every time, while the other X apps (terminals, browsers...) get the Control key to themselves.

>and they don't also rebind <C-w>. Go from trying to delete a word (backwards) but end up losing a whole session

This is literally why Vim binding for Jupyter doesn't work for me and also why the "terminal" in Jupyter Lab is worse than not existing -- I can't help but press C-w

we old vi users don't use key combinations, that's an emacs thing :)

I don't think old means better. I agree that you should use whatever is best for you and makes you more productive (why I doing care about vim vs emacs debates) but I think you're giving up a lot. You're given and unless color blind then you are missing the added dimensions you searching with things like syntax highlighting. All your commands exist in vim, but come on, you've had the last 33 years to update. My configs update as I change too, so I hope that you aren't stuck because I don't like vi for the same reason I don't like GUIs: not all holes are round and not all pegs are square.

Btw, this is not actually deleted, but put in the trash can.

But it seems that this hotkey is not good for many people. It may be changed in the next version. Thanks for your feedback.

I use a number of apps where ctrl-d is a common non-destructive shortcut, and can't recall ever encountering one where it was used for delete.

k9s does a delete for ctrl+d

With a prompt, asking for confirmation if I recall correctly...

In ranger, dd is cut/mv and dD is delete, but dD on one file spawns a command with :delete typed in so you have to hit enter to pull the trigger, and doing it with multiple files has the same behavior plus adds a y/N prompt asking if you're sure you want to delete those specific files. This is enough friction to prevent most mishaps, but not enough to be annoying. I would suggest taking inspiration from this.

How do I undo CTRL-d deletes? I almost deleted all my home dir...

I am so sorry to hear about that:(

You can go to "~/.local/share/Trash" all files that you deleted are at there

I used vim for 5 years and never knew about C-d for scrolling until after I had switched to Emacs and one day, on a whim, decided to install and activate evil and look what various commands were bound to. I removed evil immediately afterwards as 5 years of vim taught me to hate modal editing with a passion.

So there's no confirmation for deletion? Oof, that's probably the most unsafe default I have seen in a while.

There will be a prompt for complete deletion, but there will be no prompt for putting it in the trash can.

These key-bindings are pure evil for vim users.

Yes those defaults won’t really work for vim. Escape exits the program, without even using it, I already know I am going to exit a zillion times once my brain thinks I am in Vim.

But the good thing is they are just defaults. Hopefully there are already no legions of users resistant to any changes to defaults.

Even for non-vim users this default is absolutely horrendous

Holy shit, thanks for the warning.

what's even the point of downloading something so banal & not read the docs; comment at the post WITH the warning of it not complaining with Vim shortcuts when it's clear that Emacs is ballparks better? /s

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