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Comment by orphea | Hacker News Reader

How do you guys not miss F keys? I can press e.g. Ctrl+F5 with one hand but I would have to use both hands to press Ctrl+Fn+5.

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I primarily use macOS, where shortcuts have been almost exclusively mnemonic (e.g. Command-R → Reload) since the earliest Mac models. F-key usage is relegated mostly to lazy ports from other platforms.

This. I use the function keys so rarely the whole row of keys except for the escape key could be taken out.

...which makes macOS-using developers' negative reactions to the 2016 MBP touch bar kind of odd/ironic, no? We all agree that nobody needs the F keys on a Mac... so why was it such a big problem when they got virtualized under the equivalent of a car infotainment display?

(Yeah, the escape key was taken out as well at first, but then it was brought back, and people still were quite hateful toward the touch bar after that.)

The biggest issues with the touch bar, from my perspective:

- It couldn’t be used without being looked at, due to it having no physical keys

- It was always kind of hacky, being essentially a long thin Apple Watch (down to running a watchOS variant) that would occasionally freeze up

I think it would’ve been better received had it been composed of Stream Deck-like display keys powered by macOS itself which would’ve brought much of the dynamicism of the touch bar while also keeping tactile feedback and eschewing bolted-on watchOS-variant bugginess.

> had it been composed of Stream Deck-like display keys

Mind you, a majority of the useful "things the touchbar can change into" involved non key-shaped interaction surfaces. The volume and brightness sliders; the iMovie/FCP video scrubber; the keyboard autocomplete suggestions; etc.

The only way this would have worked is if arbitrary regions could have been dynamically raised/tactile-ized to match the interaction elements being shown.

The last time someone tried to make a highly-tactile touchscreen we got the BlackBerry Storm, and it was awful. I owned one and dropped it in a lake by accident. I did not miss it.

That said, a touchscreen with software-positioned raised areas would be very neat, if it existed.

We have bendy touchscreens these days that withstand seemingly-impossible 180-degree bends, so some of the hard work may have already been done.

From 10,000 feet up, all we really need are some mechanical actuators to allow it to be segmented in a way that can be felt.

(Or. Electromagnets, and ferrofluid. Under the display.)

People use the brightness, volume, and music keys, rather than the Fn-modified “F” versions.

I only use keyboards running QMK or ZMK, so:

My Caps Lock key is a Control/Escape key (when tapped it behave like a Escape, when hold it's Control), and my left Control is a one shot layer switch key [1], which means I tap LCtrl once, and then press Caps Lock + 5 to get Ctrl+F5. Doable with single hand and more ergonomic as I have an unusually small hand.

[1] https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware/blob/master/docs/one_sho...

Once you learn and get used to the macOS's shortcuts, you can totally ignore F-keys.

The only F keys I use are F11 and F12, and only by accident when I'm trying to backspace. And don't get me started on the capslock key.

I love the Caps Lock key, because I remap it to Compose.

> Ctrl+F5 with one hand Maybe I have small hands or a bigger keyboard but I have to stretch hand out entirely from my pinky to my index finger to do this with one hand; how do you do this comfortably?

This is why I would not use less than a 75% keyboard. I don't see the point in saving vertical space (unless it's a laptop).

I have the modifier keys both sides of my keyboard. That way Ctrl + [Layer2] + [key] is no more awkward than Ctrl + Shift + [key].

1. No application I use needs Ctrl+Fx

2. If I did, I would've either remap it or create a layer to make pressing it easy.

I used to make map right Ctrl -> Ctrl+Fn for that reason

Layers. I can also press ctrl f5 with one hand.

Your full size keyboard is an ergonomic prison.

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