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Comment by ok123456 | Hacker News Reader

Shouldn't the US prove it's better than China by its self-consistent actions with its espoused virtues of freedom of the press?

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The self consistent actions could just be "tit for tat" responses to the behavior of others. Does China allow free reign of American companies within its borders? No? Then China doesn't get that right either.

Regardless, TikTok isn't going away, it is just changing owners. How does that have any effect on freedom of the press?

What if they don't want to change owners? Why should a global company from Singapore do what US politicians want?

All of our global companies do what China wants to operate there, and what they ask is a lot more onerous than to spin out a separate entity for local operation.

At least the US is trying to protect the privacy of its citizens in this case. The CCP meanwhile required Apple to prevent Airdrop from functioning properly in China in order to stop the spread of information between protest groups.

Then...don't? No one is forcing them to, they just can't do business in the US if that is their choice.

I hope they don't. Then I will finally give a smartphone to my kids.

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything.

TikTok can decide to not sell, in which case it's banned, or it can sell, in which case it's not.

Please, US doesn't need to prove anything w.r.t freedom vs. China.

So you're saying the USA is better and thus it never needs to be compared in any aspect related to 'freedom'? That's a nice way of never having to challenge your assumptions.

No, I'm saying what I said in OP

Here you go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices

Enjoy the data.

Holy fucking strawman, Batman!

It's not a strawman. The US espouses freedom of speech, and TikTok is comparable to running a printing press. It also espouses a general freedom to own and run private enterprises.

This ban runs against both of those.

> It's not a strawman.

It is absolutely a strawman:

> A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.

Grandparent: Please, US doesn't need to prove anything w.r.t freedom vs. China.

Parent: So you're saying the USA is better and thus it never needs to be compared in any aspect related to 'freedom'?

Me: GP didn't say the USA never needs to be compared in any aspect related to freedom, they said _relative to China_ the US doesn't need to prove anything.

It's objectively a strawman.

That's separate from the issue of whether or not this infringes on the freedom of speech, but 1) freedom of speech in the US is not nor ever has been absolute with no limits and 2) this move absolutely deserves scrutiny.

Actually, it does.

Meh, foreign tech companies still can't even operate in China. The only way even things like iCloud exist there is because Apple literally handed it over to be owned and operated by the Guizhou government.

Sorry but this is about China, the bar is that low.

No. It's about whether or not we're hypocrites regarding freedom of the press and freedom of speech, as well as the overall freedom of business.

The Bill of Rights does not inherently apply to non-citizens. There's nothing stopping the people from running TikTok without government oversight. The only problem is that a foreign adversary controls it. This really is not comparable to China's restrictions.

Yes, it does Yamataya v. Fisher and Yick Wo v. Hopkins. And that protection extends to commercial entities: First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti.

Certain aspects of it do, but it doesn't as a whole. See United States v. Verdugo-Urquidez for the precedent that the Fourth Amendment doesn't totally apply to non-citizens. The Supreme Court hasn't specifically ruled on the First Amendment, it's hard to imagine that they would say hostile nations have an inalienable right to publish as much propaganda as they want in the US.

Even assuming that exception is taken up, it would be difficult to prove in a court that TikTok is using its editorial control to publish propaganda beyond what other social media platforms do quiescently.

Propaganda is what advertising is. Should the courts restrict companies from their ability to advertise?

It's not a criminal trial. The US doesn't have to prove that TikTok did anything. They merely need to show a compelling interest in restricting its future actions.

https://old.reddit.com/r/bjj/comments/qvecmj/sneakiness_and_...

Freedom of the press/speech applies only to humans/entities within US borders not to foreign entities.

Last time I checked China wasn't within US borders.

Yes, but at some point you have to know where to draw the line. That line should be national security.

If China is indeed receiving data from TikTok, the future isn't going to be fun, especially with AI tech heating up.

Truth is, when China benefits, the Han Chinese people benefit. Every other ethnicity? Uncertain.

When the US benefits, a variety of ethnicities benefit. The US is now diverse enough where it must work in the interest of a variety of ethnicities in order to operate effectively.

So unless you're Han Chinese, you're more likely to benefit when the US wins.

Looks like the wumao's have made it to HN :)

who?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party

TikTok isn’t a news organization. It’s an entertainment platform.

I don’t understand the people coming out of the woodworks saying this is suppressing “freedom of the press” or speech.

Set up your own domain, get a VPS, upload your trash to VPS. There ya go, no more “censorship”.

Oh wait , you don’t want to do the work to set this up? Sounds like a personal problem.

> TikTok isn’t a news organization. It’s an entertainment platform.

I don't remember the First Amendment distinguishing between free speech that informs and that which entertains.

Most news on television is selected for its entertainment value. Does that give the government more power to regulate it?

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