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Comment by CmdrLoskene | Hacker News Reader

I didn't pay for Clear so that I could bask in my social status at the airport. I paid for it so I don't have to go through the PornoScanner™, which is ridiculous, demeaning, and unnecessary. For the life of me I don't know why people put up with it, but I can't gripe at the airport because then the TSA people get very worked up. Hence, Clear.

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With TSA precheck, you only have to go through a metal detector. It's a program run by a federal agency, not a private contractor that requires your retinal scans. It's also available at more US airports than Clear.

Just renewed my pre-check. Was surprised to see that the security screening was by a private company: I had a choice of three, each with their own (similar) pricing. Clear was one of them.

I just opt out every time. It's an inconvenience, but it's an inconvenience that costs them money, and everyone should do it instead of paying for a workaround that provides them another revenue stream.

Security theater for corporate profits is total bullcrap.

> but it's an inconvenience that costs them money

Does it? It’s not like they have to hire someone extra, they just call up someone from the crew that walks over as slowly as they possibly can, and projects as much attitude as they possibly can. That agent’s highlight of the day would be making opt-outers wait.

> Does it? It’s not like they have to hire someone extra, they just call up someone from the crew

This is a bit of a bizarre argument. Do you think the crew is made up of volunteers? Do you think the number of crew members somehow isn't determined in part by the throughput of tasks crew members are needed to perform? I'm not even sure what you think is going on here.

> that walks over as slowly as they possibly can, and projects as much attitude as they possibly can. That agent’s highlight of the day would be making opt-outers wait.

That's never been my experience in like 20ish flights since TSA started irradiating people. I know the agent isn't the problem, and I treat them as the human being doing their job that they are, and the entire thing goes by like the routine waste of time that it is.

Would you mind sharing the exact steps you take and what happens next when you do this?

You just tell the TSA agent that you want to opt out of the body scanner. They then find an agent of your gender to do a pat-down screening and a swab to test for trace chemicals. It takes about 3 minutes assuming they have an agent available.

I used to opt out (before I got TSA pre). When you're standing at the rapey scan and they tell you to go through, just say "opt out". Then they'll exhale loudly, roll their eyes, and yell "opt out". Then you stand around for a couple minutes while they find somebody to give you an old handy. They'll read you their spiel and ask if you want a private room (I assume that involves a happy ending). Then they ask if you have any sensitive areas, do a half-assed job of patting down your upper body, run their hands up and down your legs, and wipe their gloves to test for bombs or farts or whatever.

I vaguely remember the yelling "opt out" in the early days of the porn scanners, but I don't think they do this at most airports any more.

I think you might be taking the agents' reactions more personally than they are intended: I'm sure that the TSA agents aren't necessarily happy because you're adding a task to their plate, and in busy airports they already have a lot going on, so it's understandably visible that they're stressed. But every one I've interacted with has kept it more professional than an eye roll.

Remember, the agents themselves are just not-all-that-well-paid workers. They aren't the cause of the problem.

I tell the TSA agent who runs the porn machine that I want to opt out. Sometimes there's a TSA agent directing traffic before that, so I'll tell them instead.

They usually make sure that they know which of my shoes and carry-ons is going through that separate scanner so I can pick it up after. I end up waiting at most a minute for a male (because I am male) TSA agent to come over and do the pat down. Before they do the patdown, they explain what they're going to do; I believe this explanation is standardized and memorized, though I haven't gone through word for word and checked that. Afterward they'll either swab my some area of my clothes, or (more often) swab the nitrile gloves they patted me down with, and put it in what I assume is a spectrometer to check for chemicals. Twice, the person doing the pat down was a trainee, so the pat down was observed by a trainer and the trainer asked me a few questions, like if I felt the trainee had used too much pressure during the patdown. At that point I'm free to pick up my bins of shoes and other carry-ons, and I'm free to go. Entire process takes 2-5 minutes, most often in the lower end of that range.

During the patdown, some agents will ask questions like where I'm flying to and why. This is pretty hit or miss and I don't get the impression that they're part of the security (though it could be). The impression I get is that it's just making small talk on the most obvious available topic.

I opt out every time too. I like getting the individualized attention and I consider it a free massage.

It's also a great opportunity to give the TSA agent hands on practice. Need to get them skilled up, frisking on behalf of "on the go" VIPs. They usually laugh at that joke while fondling me.

> I paid for it so I don't have to go through the PornoScanner™

Are you sure you are a Clear member? You seem to be missing some basic information about Clear membership. Clear members go through the same scanners as the commoners.

Only the people who did not get scammed into paying for Clear and instead paid for TSA Pre, get to skip the slow scan lines.

$10 says they do indeed maintain those images someplace and $10 more says they're going to be used to train AI models "to enhance the security and safety of the US travel experience".

I understand that it bothers some people, but it doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t find it degrading or demeaning.

It’s not even about a difference in my tolerance for uncomfortable things. It’s not even on my radar of things that grind my gears. I’m more bothered by taking off my shoes

I think it’s a much more invasive search than is required to serve the legitimate security purpose (and is therefore unreasonable).

I opt-out as a matter of protecting my Fourth Amendment rights, not because I care about someone seeing my body.

> it doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t find it degrading or demeaning.

What about second hand? I like travel, but one downside, is the memories of pain. The woman with the thousand-yard stare as her genitals are groped. The stressed-out pregnant woman being "persuaded" with same to use the ramshackle backscatter X-ray, her young child freaked beside her. Turn your back and walk away. There are many places in the world, where when random people are being hurt, you just do not get involved. But it's a hit.

Isn't Clear only for the pre-check and not for the scanning? TSA Pre let's you get the metal detector only but I thought Clear goes to the regular security screening unless you also have TSA Pre.

> For the life of me I don't know why people put up with it

Let’s see. My options are getting on my flight… or not getting on my flight.

Maybe it’s selfish but I’m more interested in getting on a plane than making a stand for freedom in the airport security line.

You don't have to go through the pornoscanner regardless; I always request the complimentary massage instead.

It is all ridiculous, demeaning, and unnecessary either way, but somehow it feels a little better when the process is ridiculous and demeaning for the TSA staff, too.

If everyone opted out, the security line would grind to a halt, and politically-connected people would therefore lose money. Would that force the powers-that-be to improve this mess? I think we should try to find out.

"So when you are requested to pay up or be molested" indeed.

> For the life of me I don't know why people put up with it

So they'll be able to get on their flight.

TSA pre-check uses a metal detector instead of the rapey-scans.

(edit - called it an x-ray machine, d'oh)

I think you mean metal detector

most of the backscatter X-ray machines are gone, its a millimeter wave scanner

> the PornoScanner™

What part of the airport experience are you talking about here?

Backscatter X-Ray or similar, presumably.

Haven’t those been phased out at most major airports? I fly with some frequency and all the TSA agent sees is an illustration of my body shape. Apparently this is using milimetre waves

The machine creates a detailed pornographic-detail-grade image [1]. You have no way to know if it is saved. What is displayed on the external screen is not relevant.

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Image-generated-by-L3-mi...

You can still opt out of it right?

Yes, you can. Even without pre-check (though I still recommend pre too).

Yep. After sixty or so opt-out pat downs and a pandemic transition, I got Precheck so that my transgenderness doesn’t Surprise(tm) my government when I fly. Hooray for metal detectors.

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