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Comment by Nicholas_C | Hacker News Reader

I’m curious about your desire to not own a phone. Have you written about the experience anywhere?

I don't carry a cell phone, and stopped using email years ago.

When I do discuss these experiences, most people aren't able to believe me. "How?" is a typical response... which to me seems equally strange a question.

It does make parking difficult ("pay with the app!"); last time I had a court action, the judge required me to sign a document stating I did not use email, because this is "a required piece of information."

Until this year, I handed out my numeric pager as "my phone number," which grateful reduced successful contact [to my chagrin].

There are lots of us.

But I've learned that, aside from mentioning "I don't have a phone" it's really not useful to discuss it any further on the internet. There seems to be a large cohort of trolls who love arguing with anybody who doesn't have a phone. I guess it bothers them that some of us can be free from what so many are addicted to.

I wouldn't argue with you. I'd just observe that you cut yourself off from a lot of modern conveniences. (I certainly grew up without cell phone until well into my adult life and largely without Internet as well.) You don't need electricity or indoor plumbing either--although those are arguably at a different level.

Modern conveniences is right. Everything is two factor authenticated now. Even if you avoid that in your private life your workplace is liable to roll it out if they haven't already.

There are alternatives to 2FA that don't require phones. But, yeah, at some point you become the weird person who refused to have a smartphone (or a cell phone at all) and, unless you're really special in some way, you probably have a target on your back.

For my workplace it was a choice of downloading duo on the phone or getting sms codes. In the past year they cut out the sms codes, now you get a temporary code from the duo app you need to enter into the login portal vs just a push to duo.

There are TOTP apps for regular computer. I am using an old tablet for the microsoft authenticator and banking apps.

Technically it is pretty much like a phone but it is not used as a phone. No number, no sim card.

I am pretty sure some of these apps could work on waydroid too if needed.

So in the end all this discussion really depends if we are talking about the mobile device as a whole that you carry with you nearly all the time or some parts of the ecosystem that you may have at home.

There are hardware tokens. But, yes, not everyone supports them.

Maybe there is a market for minuscule TOTP devices. Just 7 segment displays for the code and the lowest res camera that can decode a QR code.

Or even lower-powered? https://www.amazon.com/Token2-miniOTP-2-NFC-programmable-Two...

I remember my dad worked at a bank in the 90s and had one shaped like this to enter one of the buildings: https://www.amazon.com/HyperOTP-Time-Based-6-Digit-Services-...

Yeah RSA made these for a looong time.

But if you don't have a phone to program it you'd need a camera or some way to manually enter the data.

FIDO2 Security keys should be considered good "hardware tokens" now , more phishing-resistant than TOTP

People cutting themselves off from modern convenience for moral reasons only gets interesting to me when it approaches Amish levels of commitment.

Not all Amish are the same. You're likely thinking of Swartzentruber Amish. It depends on your community, some have phones, some have a house with a shared phone. The Amish world at the moment is facing some of these changes, and some standards are evolving, but there will always be some separation with the English world until these modernities can be used in ways that don't erode community faith and relationships.

It's Ordnung.

Maybe because phones allow to track people? It is a spy in your pocket.

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