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Comment by mechanical_fish | Hacker News Reader

I could try to find a deaf girl. However, I don’t want my kids to have an increased chance of deafness.

This sounds like a classic case of premature optimisation. Cross that bridge when you get there. Thousands of other deaf parents have done so. Their kids were fine.

Even if they come out hearing, we’d need to make sure they’re raised right — who will teach them how to talk?

Let me respectfully suggest that this is just untrue, a persistent myth about language learning. Hearing kids learn spoken language just fine, even if their parents don't use it. (Parents have a natural tendency to overemphasise the percentage of the time that their kids spend listening only to them. ;) But kids listen to everyone.)

One thing that does happen is that hearing kids of deaf parents become fluent in both ASL and a spoken language. Which is not a problem. It is in fact kind of awesome.

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This sounds like a classic case of premature optimisation. Cross that bridge when you get there. Thousands of other deaf parents have done so. Their kids were fine.

Actually, you're right. Sometimes the girl I like is deaf, sometimes not. I should be fine with kids either way, and put in the work to make sure they develop right. I'm rethinking this entire paragraph. Perhaps I should have said I don't specifically search for a girl who is deaf, and then just left it at that, or just removed it entirely. Love is love.

Let me respectfully suggest that this is just untrue, a persistent myth about language learning. Hearing kids learn spoken language just fine, even if their parents don't use it.

Some (old) studies had suggested otherwise, but you made me remember the bilingualism argument, which is gaining traction. I do know that if you have a hearing child to both deaf parents, it's very important to expose the child to spoken language as much as possible. Of course, I hope I'm that kind of parent :-)

Bilingual kids do have a lot of advantages over kids who only know one language. I'd be very happy to teach my child, hearing or deaf, both sign and English.

Thanks for the insightful comment.

As a hearing child of two deaf parents, I'm one data point against the notion that such a child's language skills are harmed. Sesame Street is a wonderful thing.

First, non of what I'll be writting is an offense of any kind, I'm just putting it first because a) my other language isn't english 2) it's a sesitive subject and 3) it's awritten communication - annonymous.

You are right, love is love. And one thing I learned, never argue with it! Never! So secondly, I don't think there is anything wrong with premature optimisation, everybody wants their kids to be allright and, yes, normal. If they are not, you still love them and you can't predict it anyhow but I completely understand if you want to reduce risks. since I was faced with a similar decision myself (thank god my genes turned out ok), my girl-friend and I decided to go for it. Exactly because we wanted our kids to be allright.

And as for the rest of your post: you opened my eyes on a subject I never really thought about, thank you very much for that!

There are thousands and thousands of orphan children out there, why not adopt one? I'm not deaf, and thankfully have no physical illnesses (except that I sit too much in front of a computer), so there's no statistical reason to fear that my genes could go wrong, but I'm sure I'll never have kids.

I don't want to judge other people, but to me, the idea of having a child while there are millions of orphan children (a huge percentage of them are healthy and very smart) who would love nothing more than a home is very unethical.

I know that this might be a controversial view and most people don't feel this way, but I just wanted you to know that there are other alternatives.

There have been a few IAMA's on reddit from children of deaf parents. I googled for one but found several. You might find them interesting:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/fto7h/iama_hearing_chi...

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/p529d/iama_16_hearing_...

http://fr.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/sdtr1/iam_13_year_old_g...

Yeah I think you could remove that section entirely.

     One thing that does happen is that hearing kids
     of deaf parents become fluent in both ASL and a 
     spoken language

This also happens inside families that migrated to another country. The parents do not speak the foreign language withing the walls of their own house (the foreign language being an inconvenience for them), but that doesn't stop the children from being very fluent in both languages from a very young age.

As a person who was raised with two different household languages at different times, I can offer anecdotal evidence that this holds true. My refugee parents decided that their native language (Romanian) would be an obstacle for me in their new country (Thailand) and went for English instead. Then we got asylum in Sweden and I learned Swedish in kindergarten and so on.

In Sweden my parents started speaking Romanian at home, which I also picked up. It became a coherent triangle of languages, where home we spoke Romanian, outside of home Swedish, and English on TV and in school.

So you learned English from TV? I thought I've always heard that didn't work.

Works really well if you are a kid. You get really solid foundations then and you gradually improve.

This is why its important for your kids to watch Cartoon Network in English. I think this is how I and a whole lot of other 20-somethings learned the language.

I learned most of my early english from TV. I grew up in the Netherlands, speaking Frisian at home and Dutch at school. At the time dutch tv did not offer much programming aimed at children, the more interesting cartoons to be found on cable tv were on english language channels. I would tape Transformers episodes and watch them over and over.

Later on I started consuming other media (video games + video game magazines, american comics), so that by the time they started teaching english to me at school I was already relatively fluent.

Just another anecdote, but every Dutchman and Swede I've met has a much better grasp of the English language than any other country, and they all attribute it to how much American TV they watch. Probably just a corollary relationship given how English classes start at an early age, but I can't imagine the practice hurts.

I find it quite easy to find a correlation between countries that dubs their TV/movies with poor English comprehension.

It really helps and without it people wouldn't be in contact with English that often (at least before the internet) and if you never refresh your knowledge it will most definitely fade. Yes, we start learning English at an early age but a lot of students excel way faster than teaching allows once they get over the initial hurdle (much thanks to TV and internet).

As a Swede I feel that we are quite good at understanding English but we are quite poor (comparatively) at speaking it (although we can often make ourselves understood it isn't pretty), which isn't that surprising considering how seldom most people in Sweden need to talk in English (but we constantly consume it).

Compare France and Germany with Sweden and I think the biggest advantage that Sweden has is that we don't dub any movies or TV (except for cartoons and movies targeted towards small children). That and that people in France tend to get upset every time the are reminded that french isn't the only language in the world.

That's an observation i've made myself a dozen times too, i'm from Flanders (Belgium) where basically not a single show on public television is dubbed, all shows are subtitled and I'm confident that it has been a great stimulation in my ability to speak and understand english, even though it's not perfect. When I look at the other side of the country (Wallonia) where they speak french natively almost all shows on public TV networks are dubbed in french. The wallonians I know are pretty hard to understand when they speak english, they might grasp the grammar and spelling but their pronunciation is really bad.

PS: I don't mean to generalize here, it's just my personal observation, of course there are a lot of french talking people who speak perfectly understandable english fluent. I just feel that the fact that I've watched english spoken television shows all my life has helped me a huge amount in learning english.

I don't think it's quite as simple. Poland has been dubbing foreign TV/movies since the early 90s (in addition to having a rich homegrown tradition of children's entertainment) and English among younger generations is widespread and quite good, if not Scandinavia/Netherlands good.

I'd be willing to bet a correlation with country's population and relative economic power would be much stronger.

It might be then good to analise another country, a poorer one and not in the north, say Portugal. Almost nothing is dubbed in Portugal and you can see quite a difference between Portuguese and Spanish people speaking English. Same for French or Italian people.

Still, Scandinavian youth seem to have almost perfect English and that is not true about Portugal where it's mostly good enough. I'm sure education has a role here somewhere.

A Dutch friend of mine said watching English-language TV was a great help learning english. Just hearing the language a lot does wonders for recognising the sounds of words. Plus she said a lot of shows would have Dutch subtitles, so you get the link between sound & meaning.

An ex-girlfriend of mine moved to the US from Romania at the age of ten without any knowledge of English. As an adult she speaks completely fluent English with no hint of an accent. She claims that she learned English by watching TV.

Though of course, she was also living in a country where most people speak English, so I'm sure that must have helped. I'll have to ask her how long it was before she started school again, and how well she understood English by that point.

In Romania movies on TV and at the movie theaters are also aired in English with Romanian subtitles. English is also learned from school, sometimes from the second grade.

When I was 11, I was watching Cartoon Network in English (yeah, I still love cartoons) and I could understand everything. My spoken English is still not so great, but it's nothing that couldn't be fixed with a month living in the US or UK.

No. I learned English at home, and I kept up with it through TV and school. Also, I've always preferred to read in English, which probably helped a lot.

I had learned a good amount of English by playing NES games at the age of six. I watched and understood Akira four years later. The film was in Japanese, subbed in English. Note, I don't speak a word of Japanese.

Watching English TV shows at an early age will give you an advantage later on.

When I lived in Antwerp, I learned a fair bit of Dutch by watching Dutch TV with English subtitles. I have lost it all since then but I got to the point that I could generally make out basic conversation in shops and so on.

It doesn't work well if you just put a TV on around a very young child. But if you're paying attention (and a bit older) it should work OK.

tv is a very effective medium for improving command on english. in my case i started with english when i was around 10 and then slowly built up my language skills starting with disney cartoons > national geographic > tv and movies

> This sounds like a classic case of premature optimisation.

My thoughts exactly. Before I was forced to admit that I cuold use less technical terms when describing social or psychological phenomena ;)

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