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Comment by oceanplexian | Hacker News Reader

I am against seatbelt laws, so you got me there.

I grew up as a proud resident of New Hampshire which has no such law on the books despite being one of the safest states to drive in the USA.

Motorcycles are legal so why shouldn’t driving alone without a seatbelt? Perfect example of government overreach as cars get loaded with nanny state technology. I subscribe to the philosophy of personal responsibility, something that seems to have been lost in the modern litigious, it’s everyone-else’s-fault culture of the 21st century.

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>I grew up as a proud resident of New Hampshire which has no such law on the books despite being one of the safest states to drive in the USA.

Last time I checked, you couldn't legally sell a car in New Hampshire which did not have seatbelts.

You're comparing apples to cardboard boxes here.

>Motorcycles are legal so why shouldn’t driving alone without a seatbelt?

Irrelevant. The question you need to ask for a fair comparison is:

>Motorcycles are legal so why shouldn’t SELLING A CAR without a seatbelt?

The answer is: because these are different vehicles with different use cases (and adoption levels) that require different kinds of licenses to operate and have different kind of negative externalities.

Same reason motorcycles aren't required to have airbags.

Well written. I don't know why responsibility is so scary.

I've never used a table saw but I rock climb regularly which has plenty of risk. Are table saw accidents purely due to your own actions? Or is it like a motorbike where there are factors out of your control and someone could crash into you.

If losing your fingers on a table saw is 100% due to your own actions and there are no externalities, I would call that negligence not accident.

>Well written. I don't know why responsibility is so scary.

Sure! I'm withyou!

People who buy table saws with a failsafe mechanism should not be fined for not using the failsafe or disabling it.

...selling the table saw without that mechanism should be, however, banned - just like cars without seatbelts or airbags aren't legal to sell in New Hampshire (or any other US state).

I agree. I also wear a seatbelt and do not ride a motorcycle, but I think people should be allowed to take risks with their own life if they want to. The next natural step from this legislation is government mandated diets and exercise regimens to combat the obesity epidemic — and the resulting mortality — in the United States.

I disagree. If I'm going to be forced to collectively absorb risk, then I have a right to decide what risks people can take. The main issue is that it's not just the risk of death like you're suggesting, they usually just get severely injured and it's a drain on public health infrastructure, my insurance costs, and everyone else gets shafted when their serious injury gets moved to the front of the line. I've only been to the urgent care once, but a particularly bad car crash made us wait several hours. I've had appointments delayed because of risks other people take with their own life.

We're too closely connected in modern society to just let people exclusively decide what risks they want to take, because their risks are also our risks. I wish our collective wellbeing wasn't tied to the guy who wants to drive without a seatbelt, but that's the world right now.

The government has banned things like trans fats, and I am fine with that.

In the jargon of philosophy this a friction point between Deontology (rules-based ethics) and Consequentialism (outcome-based ethics).

Deontologically there is a strong case against seatbelt laws, but the consequentialist perspective is rather compelling.

I’m generally a deontologist but find myself supporting the seatbelt law. It’s just such a small price to pay when stacked up against the consequences. I guess that means I’m not really a deontologist.

Personal responsibility is a hard sell in a world where human beings are not absolutely sovereign agents. Regardless, the law isn't stopping you from driving without a seatbelt. I find it odd that you have such a visceral response to a class of laws that is violated quite regularly.

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