Hacker News Reader

Comment by fifteen1506 | Hacker News Reader

I think we all agree management can't be blamed. Factory workers did not execute the expected steps and failed to properly escalate issues as soon as possible. Management had no information of what was going on the factory floor, and the change of the headquarters away from the factory, while reducing management overhead with day-to-day issues, required workers to escalate issues properly instead of tip-toing around the issues.

View on HN

I found the Boeing manager!

Perhaps you and I view the world in a different light, but in any organization where there is even some semblance of hierarchy, the manager is, at the end of the day, always responsible.

If management isn’t aware of what’s going on on the factory floor, then that’s definitely a failure of management. If they didn’t receive any signals, management should’ve investigated. If they hired 100% incompetent people they should’ve hired better people.

Workers must self-manage and take decisions based on company documentation. That's what being responsible means.

Yes, I agree with you there. But managers have a responsibility to make sure systems are in place where if a worker does not self-manage or make a bad decision, this gets caught early on, not 34,000 feet up in air.

K, so what happens when the documentation says X and your line manager's boss is threatening to start sending folks home if y'all don't get the lead out? You get what you incentivize. :P

Managers are coming with a better compensation exactly because they are taking responsibility. If not then they have to be paid at the same level as workers.

That is "professional" level work ethics and requires professional compensation. This utopian corporate notion of yours makes sense IFF the company is not divided into c-suite princes and princesses and pleb workers as is the case in corporate America.

> Management had no information of what was going on the factory floor

This statement represents a fundamental failure of management to do its job— To know the whole picture, recognize systemic hazards (both internal and external), and correct them before they become real problems.

Workers must self-manage and take decisions based on company documentation.

Fingers crossed that they'll do that with no oversight. On the positive side there should be considerable savings from sacking all the superfluous managers.

K so if employees can self-manage and all of the documentation is in place then what, exactly, are managers paid for? Why do they exist?

In this case, management set goals which were clearly unattainable with the resources, which management provided.

If executives face no risk for their decisions, then why do they get such high rewards?

I thought the deal was high-risk/high-reward.

Then there is clear failure in somewhere in the process. Could be that managers have written incorrect documentation. Thus they should be held responsible for documentation that is not being followed.

Management must ensure that this is actually the case.

Management is always to blame. It is their job to control, train and oversee production.

>Management had no information of what was going on the factory floor

Meaning that management failed at their job.

I think you're going to have a real tough time finding anyone willing to agree with you there. If line management didn't have a handle on the fact there was a problem and communicate it up the chain they failed. Likewise, if they signed off on a bullshit kludge they failed. If middle management opted to shovel blame around for their division of the company faceplanting instead of getting out in front of the issue and getting their people whatever they needed to get shit done they failed. If senior management decided to apply additional pressure downstream instead of quickly pivoting to full crisis mitigation mode when issues started piling up on the production lines, they not only failed but are likely the most culpable.

I agree with you but on HN there is always someone defending the bosses. I find it less frustrating defending the bosses preemptively so I can see what people better informed than me come up with.

Thing is, bosses aren't going to lose one cent. Wanna bet? The linked article is gently trying to shift the blame to factory floor workers.

Aahz's Law? Very well then, carry on.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com