Comment by doublerabbit | Hacker News Reader

Comment by doublerabbit | Hacker News Reader

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Veganism is an answer but the not right one, when it comes to veganism it's always "all or nothing". To many processed foods in that industry; simulated alternatives are terrible for your health. No, I wouldn't eat lab-grown meat.

Vegan Cheese, Burgers are all fattening and lack any actual goodness found in the real produce. And now that SuperCorps have footings in the industry it's further pumped with sugar and other ill-chemicals.

I've been vegan, I've eaten meat. And I'm now vegetarian - only eating locally sourced animal produce minus meat and death.

So take this scenario; I like cheese on my pizza. What can I have for alternative? The vegan cheese I have in my fridge, looking at the label, the full list of ingredients boasts nothing great. I'd argue less quality than if I was to go to a local farm-shop and buy locally sourced cheese.

But the merit is that the animal didn't suffer for my pizza. But did it suffer if it was produced in humane conditions? Hand milking a cow is harmless to the cow, cheese comes from that milk; where's the problem in that scenario?

Eat meat isn't inherently bad, is it cruel, debatable, and yes it is in my eyes. But you can't rule out that animals are not food sources. As are humans but we deem cannibalism as a taboo.

But to deem everything from an animal is an extreme side of veganism that's always thrown in people's faces. But as my example above there has been no harm, it's all natural as life intended.

The inhumane measures we force animals in to is where the problem lies.

People requiring "food now" where fast food chains pumping their product with chemicals; where animals have been fuelled with hormones to produce quota is.

Factory farming where animals are forced to live in cramped paddocks, abused, mistreated, beaten is what is.

The slavery, trading, trafficking, is what is.

Going to a proper butcher and eating proper meat from where an animal has been brought up in humane conditions was common practice for a long while until convenience came around.

Animal produce has turned in to a commodity, where once upon a time it was an occasional meal, now it's an everyday meal which is why it's wrong. Animals were naturally healthy back then.

Veganism doesn't have anything to do with eating processed foods though. As a vegan in the US, this feels more like a rebuttal to the Standard American Diet and the US food culture.

> Hand milking a cow is harmless to the cow, cheese comes from that milk; where's the problem in that scenario?

For a cow to produce milk she has to become pregnant (and give birth). How is forcibly impregnating a social animal only to steal its milk and baby not problematic? On humane farms where cows are hand-milked, are their babies allowed to drink the milk?

What if veganism is not about optimizing the human experience? To me it sounds cruel to say that there is no harm in milking a cow, pretty sure that milk was meant for someone else.

Correct, we don't need milk. Our bodies don't need milk past baby-hood. It's why women when pregnant only lactate, milk is for babies and we produce our own. Oat milk, coconut milk now make good alternatives and it's caught on because it's not a base item for meal.

I mean, it's used with other ingredients to produce the same result and you the difference is satisfactory. Coffee with oat milk, coconut is still coffee without or with dairy milk.

However, those substitutes in itself don't allow you to produce other products where it can aid in human development as an example.

Drinking milk by itself can be bad, your body can have trouble digesting it. But when the milk is used to produce cheese, which produces fat, proteins which your body do require in moderate amounts of where do you source that?

Robbing a cow of it's milk is an ethical question and one which is very debatable. Has the cow consented to giving you it's milk, as to the same as taking a hen's egg for a fried egg?

Nuts, have the tree consented for you taking their cashew nuts, olive oil which we inhumanely abuse too; forestation and the rest.

One could argue that the true food source is yourself.

Butchering your arm and frying it is probably the most humane, un-cruel source of food you could eat. But you were produced by your parents so you better ask for their permission first.

It all comes down to your morals and where your compass sits. Although in reality this is persuaded and manipulated by today's social constructs so not everyone has full working compass.

For me, if a cow produces excess amounts, and I can thank the cow before drinking the milk; turning that milk in to another food source that can benefit more. I feel that is satisfactory.

If they produce excess amounts, why waste it? Same with grapes, wine, nuts. They are all food providers and in excess. If I don't go in to greed. Start taking more than what's needed; I don't need cheese everyday, I don't need eggs every day, I don't see cruel.

It is cruel when it has to be produced extensively just to fuel the people who want it for greed or no purpose. If they need it more for their young, then it's theirs.

I can give back and just out of my own heart I do when I can. I'm very grateful for the sourced food I eat and I eat it in moderation. Alternatives do exist but when I desire such produce I ensure the best quality even if it costs.

Which it should, it shouldn't be cheap nor a commodity, but that itself raises the questions of what about those who can't afford quality foods -- should they go without?

I've been vegan since 2002 and I rarely eat fake meat

I'm now vegetarian, had been vegan for many years. But used to eat meat. I won't touch meat now but I like cheese and the quality of vegan cheese is so poor.

I like honey, it has wonderful attributes to your health, It makes a good syrup for cakes.

The quality of vegan food, here at least is eh at best.

And you can't just take away meat from those who do eat meat and expect them to fully comply to eating vegetables or such patties.

The vegan industry of food has a lot of processed food. Unless your eating dal's, soups, and actual food where you processed it it yourself, it's not great for you.

What vegan foods are you eating?

A lot of stir fry, pasta, tofu and beans with rice, dal, soylent. PB&j with the rich people pb, jam with sugar instead of hfcs, sprouted grain bread. Oatmeal. Veggie burgers, but the ones that are like vegetable patties or black beans burgers, don't usually get the ones that are meant to imitate meat.

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