Right now, you can properly remove all Windows apps from W11, which was really the big one that they started doing with Windows 10 alongside the Microsoft account push in OOBE (dunno if that one is still required). They also supposedly made actually disabling the Windows telemetry much more feasible than it used to be.
On a new install of Windows 11, if you select an EU region, you will have the options to remove things like edge in the OS. You can move off that region because this flag is set only on install. If you install with a non-eu region, you don't have access to those options.
Just for future reference if you want to disable it later.
[0]: https://www.xda-developers.com/enable-eea-restricted-feature...
But doesn't MS gatekeep xbox?
The platform must have any of the following to be a DMA gatekeeper:
* Market capitalization of at least €75 billion.
* More than €7.5 billion turnover from EEA residents.
* At least 45 million customers in EEA.
* At least 4.5 million business customers in EEA.
Once any of those criteria are met for 3 years, they qualify as a Gatekeeper. While the gaming market is massive, any individual console platform still sits pretty comfortably below those criteria. You can find the customer number by googling around a bit - Xbox only has around 3 million active customers if I'm not mistaken (counted by Xbox Live accounts that were active in the past year).
A platform truly needs to be collosal to be considered a Gatekeeper. This law is specifically for the large platforms, not small fry.
This seems very low given:
> As of 2022, Microsoft announced around 120 million monthly active users (MAUs).
Xbox the console is almost non existent among users and in stores here in Europe, it's all Nintendo and PlayStation
From the top of my head, the percentage counts for Europe in console market share are around 50/40/10 (Nintendo/Sony/Xbox).
So yes, they probably have 120 million MAUs globally, but the overwhelming majority of those will be coming from the US, where Xbox controls about half the console market. (Just for completeness sake: Xbox has almost no presence in Asia, South America or Africa - their failures in Asia are well documented and Xbox does no advertising whatsoever in South America whilst the African gaming market isn't large enough to be worth considering since there are other priorities there). And of course, those users aren't considered for EU legislation since the US isn't part of the EEA.
In the past few years, the xboxes were always in stock while people were joining waiting lists and lotteries * for the PS5.
* One large electronics chain actually had a lottery for the PS5 preorders at launch, because they weren't getting enough to cover what was already paid for! Some lucky people got a PS5 the rest got their money back :)
The Xbox was king there for awhile.
In my mind the xbox is for dudebro shooters and the playstation is for original, creative games. Things may have changed from the original xbox but it's too late for me.
Later I learned the PS5 can't even play CDs so maybe I dodged a tiny bullet.
Of course, most of the actual gaming happens on the Switch, but if it's cross-platform I'll probably get it on the Xbox (Hogwarts, for example).
Sorry. I played the windows port of the first Halo until some level with a jeep. I got lost in it, didn't know where to go, and I abandoned it. I kinda weaned myself off shooters (except Serious Sam) about then, or with some return to castle wolfenstein game which i found about as boring. And that was even before cover based shooters...
As for XBMC... I don't like having a noisy power hungry box on when I watch a movie. Had different solutions, right now using a Chromecast.
> Of course, most of the actual gaming happens on the Switch
It's interesting from the outside how Nintendo has captured the minds of gamers everywhere where they grew up with those gameboys and NESes...
Me, I grew up with ZX Spectrum clones that were 'just a computer'. Then I got different computers. Fine. Not really a fan of a platform.
At the same time PC gaming was pretty tough. Steam didn't even exist until 2003, and in it's early days - it was little more than a DRM wrapper for Counterstrike. And that was also the era when a new PC was outdated in a few months, and completely obsolete in a few years. Now we're in the era where consoles launch with midrange PC hardware sold at a markup to hit profitability ASAP, console games have things like day 1 patches/ad-filled dashboards/pay to use your own internet/etc, PC gaming has become amazingly convenient, and a decent PC from 5 years ago can still run nearly all new games today, with no performance issues whatsoever.
[1] - https://www.visualcapitalist.com/50-years-gaming-history-rev...
Well I don't have a gaming video card atm. If i were to get one it would cost as much as i paid for the ps5.
So I play indies and strategy on my pcs and macs (amd APU and a M2) and i get the few AAAs I'm interested in on console. For one a good bunch of them are Sony stuff and either show up on the playstation first or the pc ports are problematic.
For two, if i ever got another Rockstar game, for example, I'll get it on console because Sony doesn't allow the mandatory account crap.
I also think the era of terribad ports is largely over. PC used to be a relatively small market, and consoles used to run on relatively esoteric hardware which really reached peak weird at the PS3, which greatly complicated ports, even for skilled teams. But since the PS4 era PCs now have more marketshare, and consoles are running lightly customized generic PC hardware, and so porting is much less of an issue. There can definitely be lazy ports, where the devs do things like keep the frame-rate rocked at 30 or whatever, or fail to support ultra-wide resolutions. But in the worst case scenario, you're generally just getting the 'console experience' there.
You forgot the noise and maintaining drivers. I'm the kind that used to replace video card fans with passive radiators when that was still possible. If you can't hear the vacuum cleaner because you play with headphones, good for you :)
> I also think the era of terribad ports is largely over.
There are a few gaming companies that "have console in their DNA". No matter if the port does 15 or 1500 fps, they clearly designed for the controller and the 10ft distance on the couch. And there's always some quirk on PC that annoys you if you know how things work on a playstation. I'm not talking about frame rate here.
For example soulsbornes and kojima games. Clearly best enjoyed on a console (Bloodborne is still a Playstation exclusive, and their best IMO), unless you have the 1200 fps fetish.
Edit: hey, looky what I was just reading:
Some of the Nvidia GPUs we tested initially showed rather poor performance, and if you experience serious stuttering you might want to try a full driver clean (we use Display Driver Uninstaller) followed by a reinstall of the latest drivers. We also tested in exclusive fullscreen mode, which seemed to give slightly better performance than the default fullscreen setting.
A review on Tom's Hardware of the Horizon Forbidden West PC port. Needless to say, I've finished it ages ago and had no problems... on the PS5.
The 5700XT seems to do 54 fps average at 1080p, so no 1200 fps fetish for me either if i get one.
As for that game you mentioned, the 5700XT is doing 54FPS average on 'very high quality' settings at 1080p - so substantially better than a PS5! The PS4/PS5 uses a checkerboard upscaling to make their resolution claims. So half the pixels are 'real' and half are fudged. So for e.g. '1800p' the hardware itself is only directly rendering a 1600x900 image at well below 'very high' settings, and then interpolating the other half. In general, though, it seems like they did a top notch port - ultra wide resolution, multi monitor support, and more - all at much better performance, and for much less $$$.
I don't have a 4K TV yet :) That's how much I care about having larger numbers.
So it "looks better" just from that.
Consoles are still way closer to "plug and play" than even the best PCs. Phones have them beat, however.
I can't find exact numbers, but I would bet that Hogwarts Legacy sold more on consoles (combined) than on PC.
But phones sadly don't have games. They only have predatory gambling apps with game skins.
So, what makes it not a general purpose computing platform? Unless you mean to argue that a computer with a Xen 2 CPU, RDNA 2 GPU, running an OS based off of Windows 11 that can run Universal Windows applications is not general-purpose.
Public perception. An overwhelming majority of people who buy an Xbox (or a PlayStation, or a Switch) buy one just to play games. They don't expect it to do anything else. The manufacturers don't market their consoles as general-purpose devices either, they market them specifically as appliances for playing video games. Their SDKs also aren't publicly available.
If building iOS apps in 2008 was the same process as console games, would the iPhone be as successful as it is today? Imagine having to be a company, proving that your app idea is worthwhile, signing a million NDAs, and finally getting a devkit just so you could make a farting app (those were popular in the early days of the app store). The app review process back then was also much more forgiving and sensible than it is today. Things Apple does when it has to compete on its own merits!
> The Commission has also adopted five retention orders addressed to Alphabet, Amazon, Apple, Meta, and Microsoft, asking them to retain documents which might be used to assess their compliance with the DMA obligations, so as to preserve available evidence and ensure effective enforcement.
So, they are not under active investigation at the moment, but they are being monitored.
source https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_24_... https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...
Microsoft got regulated since before Google was founded (to put in context).
Only potential issue I see is bundling of Office 365 and Teams. And they already fixed that one. So they are the least worst player on market.
Consoles are sold at close to break even with money made back through game sales.
If EU allowed third party stores and stripped their commissions it would trigger a mass consolidation where Sony, Nintendo etc would buy developers, game engine vendors etc en masse and force exclusivity.
Indie developers in particular would have no way to compete. And consumers would be forced to buy multiple consoles.
So suppose consoles were forced to open up - if Sony and Nintendo bought devs en masse, then 1) that sounds like an end-run and could easily open them up to a product-tying suit, 2) that would lose them tons of money, because now they're losing money on their hardware and their devs (because forcing exclusives loses more than half of your potential sales base), and 3) indies wouldn't give a shit, because Steam already exists and in fact could be one of those third-party stores that the EU specifically forced consoles to allow, in this hypothetical.
This wouldn't catch the industry completely flatfooted either, because back in the Windows 8 era Microsoft managed to scare Valve enough that they started investing in Linux as a backstop. The Steam Machines were a flop, but they've since released the Steam Deck to fill the portable console niche, and they've kept working on SteamOS and Big Picture mode to fill the gaming HTPC niche.
Also, you're claiming that Microsoft might buy Unreal Engine or Unity in order to force it to be Xbox-exclusive; that would bring the antitrust hammer down like nothing else. The only result of consequence in the 0.0002ns before the EU carpetbombs Redmond, would be a huge upsurge in suppport for Godot. Godot isn't ready for primetime just yet (especially in 3D) and games can't practically switch engine mid-development, but people are already on edge from Unity's recent "charge per download" (scandal? controversy? worrying incident? whatever you call it.)
Also, there are entire markets where game consoles don't have all that much penetration. China, in particular, who had banned consoles entirely until 2015, and restricted them until at least 2018. Convincing the Chinese market to buy even one console, let alone multiple, is unrealistic and platform holders know it.
Not just that. They're a standard spec that people build to, and wring performance out of, and consult to game/engine manufacturers, and they sponsor tournaments and do marketing. They're also sold below cost, both because they can order in bulk, but also because they can assume future components will be cheaper for the same spec, and they might be able to lower their internal costs eventually.
You can already buy a PC and play games on it. Consoles are an additional thing you can buy, and removing them removes choice.
> Also, you're claiming that Microsoft might buy Unreal Engine or Unity in order to force it to be Xbox-exclusive; that would bring the antitrust hammer down like nothing else. The only result of consequence in the 0.0002ns before the EU carpetbombs Redmond, would be a huge upsurge in suppport for Godot.
It won't be this simple. It'll just be better support on Microsoft platforms, and cross-play between PC and Xbox, to drown out Steam a little and Playstation a lot.
[1] See Electronic Arts holding the exclusive Porsche license for several years, or how they were basically monopolizing American/gridiron football market by having the exclusive NFL license.
Also: (I originally replied this part only)
>Convincing the Chinese market to buy even one console, let alone multiple, is unrealistic and platform holders know it.
The greater Asian market is more of a mobile game continent, to be fair. Look at Japan with their "gacha" game subculture; on top of the standard stuff surrounding mobile games, there's also the parasocial aspect associated with them that makes them popular.
Why would anyone want to be bought? There would be nothing to gain for devs. No one would need to accept any deals to get on a platform since they wouldn't need to use the manufacturer's store. Currently the deal is "Money + Access to the platform". Third party stores would cut this deal down to just "Money". Thus exclusivity deals would get a lot more expensive for Sony, Nintendo etc. Thus they would be able to buy less "developers, game engine vendors etc en masse".
Indie devs would have a much easier time competing without having to bow to the gatekeepers demands. I really don't get your reasoning.
The question you should answer is: how much would an unsubsidised console cost?
(I'm not the person you replied to, but)
About as much as a gaming PC, because that's exactly what it is these days. Except actual gaming PCs of the same price would have lower TCO, since you don't need to pay for an Xbox Live/PSN subscription.
Gaming PCs should still cost a bit more, because:
1. they aren't sold in vast quantities with the same spec, and so supplier can't negotiate vast discounts
2. they often don't have games nearly as optimised for them, because different PCs have different configurations, so you need to buy much specs for the same performance
3. consoles likely factor in total procurement costs over the lifetime of the console, and so they can be cheaper initially and lower price more slowly than they lower costs, to recoup some of the deficit
However of course in practice if you can't subsidise your game console with game sales, then (2) and (3) probably vanish.
That is what i am saying. It already happens. Opening more markets makes it less attractive for games companies to accept getting bought, doesn't it? If manufactures had the money to buy all the devs on masse they would already. Third party markets would only lessen their negotiation power. Devs could just go somewhere else. Especially with your other point below.
> how much would an unsubsidised console cost?
More and they would sell less of them? Making it less attractive for game devs to develop for said console. So what am i missing?
Not really, unless it suddenly becomes easy to develop and market a game for all platforms. Pushing your code to a shop instead 3 shops won't be an amazing saving.
> More and they would sell less of them? Making it less attractive for game devs to develop for said console. So what am i missing?
Well - if fewer consoles exist, each with 10 different store fronts you have to now push to, presumably that means games cost more, as they're selling fewer units, and (less important, but still painful) they have to figure out which store should have which integrations / price / deals/ etc.
My real point is in asking: why are people not allowed to sell what they want, without massive fines coming their way (that don't come the way of others doing what they do)?
Apple would also be allowed to charge whatever they want in the app store if there were actual competition on the platform.
Since there isn't they have to play by the rules.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/03/22/eu_antitrust_microsof...
They started an investigation on 365+Teams a year ago:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...
And Microsoft complied by unbundling Teams in the EEA:
https://www.reuters.com/technology/microsoft-unbundle-teams-...
and late last year, the EU asked Teams rivals whether they still thought there was an issue:
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/microsoft-rivals-asked-...
Microsoft's DMA changes include allowing Edge to be uninstalled, interoperability in Search and Widgets, asking users for consent before syncing content through the connected Microsoft account, and more strictly respecting browser defaults.
I'm guessing the EU is focused on consumer, not B2B focused companies
Citation needed as they say. Even if it's true that's it more than 0, my estimate would be far in excess of 90% (of governmental employees who do their work inside of the Microsoft ecosystem).
But your other point about not focusing on B2B is probably more true. However recent stuff like the cloud egress fees (EU Data ACT) shows that they do care about B2B sometimes at least.
Windows and LinkedIn should be covered.
Maybe there isn't anything that the commission wants to investigate there because they did a good enough job complying. But future can bring more probes.
They don't control distribution of software on Windows (no one uses MS Store), it already has major stores owned by different companies such as Steam, Epic etc that have as much access to the OS that the MS Store does.
Also, they weren't able to turn their dominant position in desktops into anything in mobile.
They may do other anti-consumer things, but they don't do these things.