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Comment by pjmlp | Hacker News Reader

It has been proven multiple times since Compuserve, AOL and MSN, that users don't want decentralised systems.

I think the runaway success of p2p file sharing platforms (from Gnutella to Bittorrent and everything in between), Bitcoin and others prove that plenty of users do want decentralized systems.

It's interesting that you named a bunch of very large corporations who have a vested interest in users not having the choice of decentralized systems (which they cannot control or profit from) as "proof" that decentralized systems are not desirable.

People used them because they worked better than alternatives, not because they were p2p. Indeed, most people used them like centralized services by going to The Big Site We All Know and downloading things from there. That they weren't actually downloading the movie/game/etc from there was an ignorable implementation detail.

Young people today use centralized streaming sites more, because they're easier to use. That they're not p2p isn't something any of them know or care about.

I use those on purpose, because they were there before Internet became a thing, using their proprietary systems, and after the Internet boom, the abstract set of "users" basically gathered around centralized systems that provide them the comfort to know where to go to, what to talk about with their friends and family.

Where are Gnutella and Bittorrent now?

Gone, in what non geeky users are concerned they never happened.

I can't speak for Gnutella, but BitTorrent remains as popular as ever. Every non-technical acquaintance of mine is at least familiar with it, except for those over 70 years old. Most keep on using it. Flash-in-the-pan streaming platforms of the day come and go, this thing has endured and will outlive anything centralized.

You must be in some kind of bubble, even half the technical people I know are not regular BitTorrent users.

Take pirated switch games for example, the root cause of this whole discussion. For a given game, you'll find 10 sketchy but fully functional direct-download sites before you find a magnet link. (Yes I'm sure your favorite private tracker has a great selection, but private tracker users are an even smaller niche within a niche)

They were made gone by fiat, despite the demand and popularity they enjoyed. That does not support the conclusion that people don't want them. Indeed, torrenting never died, a testament to the demand.

Where are Compuserve, AOL, and MSN now?

Replaced by Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Xing,...

>I think the runaway success of p2p file sharing platforms (from Gnutella to BitTorrent and everything in between), Bitcoin and others

The success of p2p file sharing platforms rested on the fact that people like piracy and free stuff, it didn't compete on service quality. Which became evident when most content became cheap and people switched.

Same with Bitcoin, people buy into it because they want to speculate and buy a Lamborghini, I still can't go to any supermarket and pay in crypto because nobody really cares about making it a means of transaction for normal people.

> The success of p2p file sharing platforms rested on the fact that people like piracy and free stuff, it didn't compete on service quality. Which became evident when most content became cheap and people switched.

Nah, it was absolutely about service quality. Absodefinitelutely.

Back in the day it was either buying things on physical media and adjusting your living situation accordingly (having meters of shelves just to store it and media player(s) set up to play the media), OR sail the seas and have "your" entire media library stored away on a media server in the closet, easily accessible from the media center PC connected to your TV. Netflix before Netflix was a thing, essentially.

Now, finally, they caught on and do provide a similar (in some ways higher) level of service as the "homebrew Netflix" solution from "þe aulde" days, and people are prepared to pay for it. I gladly pay the price for the different streaming services because of the convenience of having everything easily accessible in a format that doesn't take up all the space at my home. If that disappears though, I'll grumpily re-build the server in the closet and expand the sails again.

There's still plenty of people who don't want or can't pay for the official service... but these days, >90% use illegal streaming portals instead of p2p services, because the service quality is so much higher. No need for a server closet, when these sites are basically "netflix but you don't need to log in and they actually have what you want".

Huh I see.

That makes me happy even though I'll still choose to pay, since I guess it will make it harder for the legal streaming providers to suddenly downgrade the experience.

It's sad that we need piracy to drive innovation and keep quality expectations up.

You're using yourself as the yardstick for "normal people", but there are other "normal people" elsewhere (e.g. unstable economies) who rely on cryptocurrencies for use cases you don't have to worry about.

Sounds a lot like projection.

Cryptocurrency is a platform for trade. Not a miracle investment. Media piracy is alive because many simply don't have access to it, otherwise.

When Netflix came to my area. Yesthankyouplease signed up for the ultra whatever 4k package within days. When they started removing content, pumping woke shit and increased the price, ye nah cya wouldn't wanna be ya. And back to piracy. Who is the idiot who pays for a garbage streaming service that has no content? Let alone multiple streaming services? Just read a book, instead.

No. Piracy and crypto aren't alive because of your delusions.

The last feature piracy has is enabling game demos (Thank fuck more companies are releasing demos again). How many times do companies expect to fool people into shilling out hard cash for what, effectively, is just an unrelated CGI video reel nicked named "trailer"? Many times these trailers don't even include gameplay. Other times they straight up lie about the content of the game and release it with dumbed down graphics. Or a much more barren world.

Nah, piracy enables demos and it doesn't "hUrT tHe GaMiNg iNdUsTrY". https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy...

The entire internet is a decentralized system. So is email. Almost everything built before monetization was decentralized. It's only been proven than corporations that trying to monetize don't want decentralized systems.

The infrastructure doesn't matter when specific services are only available in one domain.

Those corporations need users to buy their ideas, let's not blame corporations without blaming the users that embrace them with open arms.

I think it's interesting just how far tech is up its own ass about the majority use case equalling the only use case that people care about.

> It has been proven multiple times since Compuserve, AOL and MSN, that users don't want decentralised systems.

Majority of users, sure. But they're dumb, and lazy, so fuck them.

Wrong. Corporations strong armed the market through lobbying and brain washing.

Take Amazon for example. Steals product ideas. Undercuts them. Bans them from their platform. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/amazon-i...

Replaces quality products with Chinese garbage. Injects fake reviews. https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/the-downfall-of-amazon-d...

With legalized gov corruption (lobbying) and media campaigns to brainwash us into thinking how amazing all these megacorps are, of course most people think a centralized internet is the bee's knees. These people don't have time to crawl through these niche information channels and find out how these user-hostile corporations operate. The people see pretty colors and drool in response. We're given enough time to work, make some babies and die.

I bet there are some books on the matter, about collectivism and such.

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