Comment by _carbyau_ | Hacker News Reader

Comment by _carbyau_ | Hacker News Reader

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Culture doesn't seem to be mentioned in TFA. Likely because come an incident it probably can't be influenced much at the time. But attitude can be. People as a team are working together to solve an issue. Humans vs issue. Not teams working to prove it isn't their fault - or is the fault of some other team.

I have been in places where a team can say "Mea culpa" and the worst thing that happens is next incident people grin and give them friendly jibes. Of course reasonable actions (workplaces can be unreasonable too...) are taken to ensure it doesn't happen again but that is simply part of the learning process.

I have also been in places where vast majority think the issue points at one team. They are silent on comms despite being present. Then miraculously the issue is gone. The response to the question of what changed? "Nothing." And we all go to bed having suspicions but no concrete answer...

Attitude is also related to many comments here expressing concerns over "people watching my screen" or "over my shoulder".

In times of crisis, if I am running a line of investigation then having a second pair of eyes is reassuring! If I think "maybe this thing is related" and someone more experienced can simply glance at it and say "Nope" then great. My idea had it's day in the sun and the group can move on.

And if you really really think it is still related then you can keep investigating without people looking - but as a second priority to group.

> I have also been in places where vast majority think the issue points at one team. They are silent on comms despite being present. Then miraculously the issue is gone. The response to the question of what changed? "Nothing."

I’m currently in a multi-day troubleshooting issue where some key SSO component isn’t functioning correctly. This component is operated by an offshore outfit we can call Total Computing Screwups, and the entire troubleshooting process is a whole bunch of incredibly expensive folks sitting on a mostly silent call, hitting refresh on login sessions that will suddenly and miraculously work, obviously without any changes being made.

Every single person in the call, except for the outsourced operator, is an expert in the field, and none are allowed to see the logs or configuration of the malfunctioning system. (Which isn’t officially malfunctioning, because they refuse to acknowledge there is actually a failure, which means the issue cannot be escalated)

It is one of the dumbest destructions of capital I have been forced to take part in, and it is all in the name of “cheaper”. It is so stupidly frustrating.

I am glad to hear I am not alone in such an experience.

I had a burn out in the past. I eventually came to the conclusion that sometimes the situation is the result of the next managerial level up from me failing their RealTimeStrategy game and not committing enough peons/wizards/engineers/diplomacy-with-subcontractedCompanies.

Maybe it's not their fault per se because the level above them failed their strategy - and so on.

But while I've learned it isn't my problem/fault - it is indeed damn frustrating. Good luck and best wishes for any clarity.

I'm so glad I work at a company with culture like one of the former and not the latter.

As someone that has worked in real life high stakes physical scenarios (people can and have died in companies I worked with), being able to blamelessly own your mistakes is critical. Lowering the stakes doesn't change that. As long as your intentions weren't weren't intentional or knowingly and needlessly reckless, you will keep your job. Even when people did exceptionally stupid or willful things we allowed them to leave with all earned pay and some semblance of fairness. Nothing makes a situation more dangerous, or harder to manage than when people hide things.

> actions are taken to ensure it doesn't happen again

That sentence captures most incident related problems well. While I love a culture where mistakes are owned, care must be taken to not end up in a culture where nothing is ever getting better.

If something wasn't properly tested, or the test environment was lacking, that policy must be permanently repaired. Not laughed at in a "everyone makes mistakes" kind of way. Everyone does make mistakes, and that must be taken into account.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that a failure to work professionally is not like operational failures. A culture of owning mistakes is good, but not all mistakes are alike.

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