Comment by glenstein | Hacker News Reader

Comment by glenstein | Hacker News Reader

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I feel like when there is financial malfeasance, we find enough cases of it in the wild to document that it has really happened. Whether it's Enron, or stories of lobbyists and politicians acting in self interest in ways that break the law, or even just municipal officials embezzling, we have known cases of that. So if you ever have the feeling that big financial transactions might be ethically questionable, you can at least know that such things have happened in the wild.

I think the same is true of war crimes in wars - enough of the worst type of things have really happened, and been documented, so there's nothing on the face of it that is outlandish if you heard a new report of such a thing.

But how about deaths in suspicious circumstances like this one? Is there a historical record of these kinds of things being carried out, especially in the western world, in circumstances where the motive is corporate self-interest? What's the most clear cut case we have of something falling in that falls into (for lack of a better term) the Michael Clayton category?

It reminds me closely of Gary Webb's death, though the circumstances are different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb#Death

But more to your question, I think a great example of corporate self-interest leading to serious crimes is the Ebay stalking scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal

Ah, WaPo debunked Gary's accurate critique of the CIA, rendering the whole thing a conspiracy theory. I expect nothing less of the CIA but seriously, is WaPo anything more than a blight on journalism?

Dr Kelly still v suspicious

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2013/jul/16/david-kelly...

Deeply suspicious

Karen Silkwood

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karen_Silkwood

if Boeing wasn't a major defense contractor -- then yeah. you could easily say suicide. but since they're in bed with 3 letter agencies.

it becomes a whole different game altogether. since there's a 3 letter agency that has nailed the assassination game to a T. whether on home soil or abroad.

At the nexus of defense contractors, arms brokers, intelligence and private military contractors, there exist the kind of men who have spent many years doing dirty deeds for various masters, and have no scruples if the pay is right. They have access to the resources, knowledge and connections required to kill someone and not get caught. They operate in a deniable manner, free of the paper trails and accountability of any government entity, but still operate at the same level. These men would be eminently accessible with only one or two degrees of separation for an executive of a defense contractor

This application of "base rates thinking" was helpful for me - a bit out of left field, I'm aware of the concept and use it sometimes but wouldn't have thought to do so here. Thanks!

Tommy Chui, cigarette smuggling.

[1]: https://www.icij.org/investigations/big-tobacco-smuggling/ba...

For notorious and violent conspiracies, see RICO Act examples.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Cor...

Perhaps the death of Jeffrey Epstein shows that this sort of thing does happen in the West. I know the case is not of the same kind, but the perpetrator was very likely a corporate type trying to protect their reputation, which is at least close.

All joking aside, was there anything in the Epstein case to indicate foul play or is it just a meme? I can't find anything reputable.

Some stuff

>Baden issued a report stating that Epstein's neck injuries were much more consistent with "homicidal strangulation" than suicide

>Baden also said that the wound was much thinner than the strip of bedsheet, and although there was blood on Epstein's neck, it was absent on the bed-sheet ligature.

from the wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jeffrey_Epstein

which has photos of his neck and it does look he was strangled by something very much narrower than the bed sheets. I'm reminded a bit of the movie The Act of Killing where one of the former government guys explained how they killed hundreds of people by strangulation with a wire. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Act_of_Killing)

I'd say on balance of probability Epstein was murdered but the Boeing guy is quite likely a suicide. Maybe he made the statements about if he dies it's not suicide as a way of getting at Boeing?

Right, there's a lot of stuff relating to the circumstances that certainly suggestive, and I wouldn't fault anyone for holding presumptions entertaining the possibility of undiscovered details.

But that said, it's still important to keep it clear dividing line between what we think and what we know for sure.

> is there anything in the Epstein case to indicate foul play

We have no evidence. It is more that Epstein knew a lot of bad things about some of the most powerful people in the country. It makes sense that they would have wanted him killed, or even that they would have wanted to fake his death to make the court case go away. People who would kill to save themselves would be just as likely to kill a drifter and give that body to the coroner, along with very clear threats to stay quiet.

Of course we have no evidence, we can only speculate. But this is exactly the kind of thing people at these power levels will do, as we know often people at this level will kill thousands of people if it suits them.

Technically there is a lot of evidence, it is all circumstantial.

There is still an argument to be made for him having killed himself.

He was facing inevitable life in prison while branded as a pedophile.

Frankly, offing himself to avoid that was the most logical move.

I have read about local SMB offing one person. That billionaires would do it would be even less surprising.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_body_count_conspiracy_...

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