Don’t let partisans gaslight you over their desperate struggles for the ring of power
yes, the sides are different, there are ways they are the same
That's an easy genericism.
In fact this particular issue under discussion is quite asymmetric. It's routine for a republican congress to block legislation that would otherwise pass (c.f. current bills for border security and Ukraine aid, our now-quarterly government shutdown jamboree, etc...). The reverse really is not true. I can't think of a notable bipartisan bill in the last decade blocked by a democratically-controlled government organ. Can you?
It's perfectly valid to have complaints about both parties, but not to invent frustrations about how they are the same.
I don't see how you're expecting things to work differently. Would we expect Democrat-sponsored legislation to fail for reasons apart from Republican opposition?
> The reverse really is not true.
I doubt that is a true statement, but assuming it is then logically that would just mean that Republicans only propose legislation after they have talked to the Democrats and confirmed they are willing to vote it through. But that would suggest the Republicans are avoiding opportunities to kick up a fuss which doesn't sound like the US Congress we all know and love.
> c.f. current bills for border security
Unrelated note but it is amazing to me that the US has been an entity for a couple of centuries now and doesn't have legislation already in place to control the border.
There is a popular perception that:
- If Democrats are in the minority and want to block a Republican bill, they will attempt to drum up public pressure, advocate on the floor and with individual legislators, etc.
- If Republicans are in the minority and want to block a Democrat bill, they will by any means necessary. They'll use various edge cases of parliamentary procedure, attach/amend/manipulate bills to poison them, etc. 'Playing dirty'.
I have no idea if this is actually true, but it's a common idea I've heard from both sides. The Democrats see it as a sign of their moral superiority, and the Republicans see it as an demonstration of conviction.
> use various edge cases of parliamentary procedure, attach/amend/manipulate bills to poison them, etc. 'Playing dirty'.
This in particular is the part that seems a bit ridiculous. I'm sure they technically do all that, but if they have the numbers to do these things they also have the numbers to just vote bills down. It isn't 'playing dirty'. And these bills are generally rider-filled messes regardless.
Maybe the argument is that the Republicans are secretly plotting against their own voters and trying to conceal it, which is the sort of theory that people on the right wing already believe. It is the right wing. One of the core political tenants is that politicians are corrupt, incompetent and untrustworthy. The right wing politicians don't really need to pretend, their voters already know - many of them go in with a mandate to try and shut the whole government down to try and limit the damage the Congress does. The bulk of voters on the right seem to be well aware by now that professional politicians, as a class, hate them. That is why there is this whole Trumpian revolt underway.
Any bill that maintains the current administration's position of simply letting people go completely free during their asylum waiting period is useless. Sure, people with legit claims might show up, but crimminals, which are the problem, are not going to come back for the hearing.
Most Americans don't mind immigrants or immigration at all and not even the idea of illegal immigration is really a problem. It's just the people that commit crimes that are the problem, it's one of the reason we see recent immigrants be so strongly in favor of border security, because the people they specifically tried to get away from are showing up too.
Not only are people caught crossing the border illegally not detained, but apparently even when they commit additional crimes it's too much for some cities and states to even keep them in jail for those crimes.
Indeed, there's a disconnect. I can't see anywhere in modern discourse that would have led you to believe that. Can you maybe cite the relevant policymakers or thought leaders or whoever that you are sure hold that opinion? Because I guarantee they don't actually exist.
What you just typed is an echo chamber point. It's not what your political enemies think, at all. It's what your political allies[1] want you to think your political enemies think. It's nonsense.
[1] Specifically the content-makers running the partisan media you consume.
If I'm your child's teacher, and your child doesn't do his homework and gets and F, you are not able to say to me "show me where my kid said he wouldn't do his homework!" , as a defense.
I won't call it a strawman argument since the grandparent post did say "inability to functionally govern and reach bi-partisan support for a lot of meaningful issues renders us helpless to improve bad systems", I was not making a point about bills passing
my only, isolated point, is that it is valid to be frustrated by the ways in which the parties are the same.
you decided to talk about one way you believe they are different. its fine if that was a misunderstanding of my point, but if you're not aware of any unproductive way the parties are the same, then this discussion isn't for you.
You made that "isolated" point in a subthread about gridlock and the inability to pass meaningful legislation. And in that particular argument to which you replied, you were wrong: the parties are not "the same".
Good rule of thumb is when a bill is blocked by one party, go find out everything that's in it and what parts the blocking party objected to. I guarantee it won't be the stuff the bill is named after.
Wikipedia has a fun example:
> The Wyoming House of Representatives Committee of the Whole amended House Bill 0085, a proposal to study the state's emergency preparedness, in order to kill the bill. The amendment would have required the state to consider purchasing an aircraft carrier (even though Wyoming is a landlocked state), purchasing fighter jets, establishing a military, initiating a draft, and creating a currency.